# Social Libertarians: Suicide's Okay, Right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2004, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-libertarians-suicides-okay-right/264491 "2004-09-15T01:11:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HumbleThinker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@HumbleThinker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumbleThinker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-libertarians-suicides-okay-right/264491/41 "2017-01-15T15:18:37Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > The other day I was thinking, like ya do, about how suicide (particularly of the non-terminal-illness variety) is pretty much viewed with universally strong disapproval up and down the American political spectrum. And it occurred to me: shouldn’t social libertarians, of whom I generally count myself one, be in favor of individuals having the freedom to choose to kill themselves, willy-nilly, in whatever circumstances, so long as no one else is physically harmed? Or, if not “in favor of” it, at least “not opposed,” in the same way that social libertarians tend not to be opposed to people choosing not to wear motorcycle helmets or seatbelts, or choosing to drink or smoke or do drugs? Shouldn’t the same people who chafe at mandatory seatbelt laws and who foment against the criminalization of marijuana also believe that it shouldn’t be a crime to attempt to inflict grievous harm upon yourself? Surely deciding to end one’s life is as much a province of free choice as deciding to experiment with heroin or go helmetless, yeah? If not, why not? > > So, social libertarians, suicide: yay or nay? Disapproving of something and thinking someone should have the freedom to do something we disapprove of are two different things. Primarily, this is a freedom from the government preventing someone else from committing suicide. That said, others are also free to try and dissuade another from committing suicide. They are particularly justified in this when feeling that preventing that person from committing suicide is in their self-interest (ie. they would be sad if that person commits suicide, they think this is a temporary mental lapse that would go away if treated, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-libertarians-suicides-okay-right/264491/42 "2017-01-15T16:20:48Z")
> [@3C\_LuckJD](#): > > Naita: > > Despite popular naive belief, my post was no-‘nonsense’ at all. But for one possible small oversight by solely’ v. ‘main’ used to explain motivation for most anti-suicide legislation. Absent legal prohibition of an act, its prevention can attract extreme liability for 3rd parties who intervene. As other messages aptly note, successful suicide is beyond reach of any manmade law. Thus, common sense alone must reveal punishment isn’t possibly sole or primary goal of such laws! Instead, prevention is the ideal outcome to facilitate proactive steps to protect those in mental distress from instant death by irrational mindsets. This scenario typically includes urgent circumstances that precludes second chances, so the law allows wide leeway to halt self-murder. > > While you made a valid point about religious views of suicide as a mortal sin that do have great influence, U.S. Const. provisions mandate separation of church and state - recall? Thus, legislators (theoretically) can’t be concerned over what they learned from preachers. Beside that, secular public policy by itself is more than ample incentive to forbid suicide. If society lets people kill themselves at will, what message does it send and where does it end? Just as courts held state interest legally valid to compel laws against human sacrifice during a religious rite, the same goes for random acts of private suicide. > > Putting theological philosophy aside momentarily, it’s quite obvious that legalized suicide is very unwise. If nothing else, it would leave potential victims and rescuers helpless to divert needless tragedy that could deprive society of valuable human assets forever. What ‘decent sites’ are required to prove self-evident fact like that? In the interests of academic integrity and intellectual curiosity, here’s one for your perusal: Larremore, W. (1903). Suicide and the Law. Harv. L. Rev., 17, 331. Chicago. Accessed at [http://heinonline.org/hol-cgi-bin/get\_pdf.cgi?handle=hein.journals/hlr17§ion=41](http://heinonline.org/hol-cgi-bin/get_pdf.cgi?handle=hein.journals/hlr17§ion=41). > > Respectfully Submitted, The founding fathers did not create the US constitution or US laws ex nihilo, and your link goes to a page that says all law created by people not strongly affected by Christianity have seen suicide as a self-evident right. It’s possible it goes on to describe a counter argument, but that’s not accessible without a subscription. And even if it does, it is evidence of what I said, suicide was “illegalized”, as you put it, due to Christian theology. That people have sought to find other reasons to keep it in modern days does not change that fact. Furthermore I did not ask for a cite that legalizing suicide was unwise, I asked for one that showed it was made illegal to allow authorities to intervene, but I think you’ll find that most western nations have managed to have psychiatric systems with suicide prevention even after suicide was decriminalized. So it baffles me how you can find that a self-evident reason. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-libertarians-suicides-okay-right/264491/43 "2017-01-15T16:40:45Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > I don’t know that I’m a social libertarian, but I do believe suicide should not be frowned upon or stigmatized the way it is if for no other reason than that it would discourage people who already have esteem issues to come forward with their problem when it is a problem. However, they are not the only people who wish to end their life. Exactly - I have Parkinson’s on one side of my family tree, and Alzheimer’s on the other. I statistically have a shot at being a braindead shaking lump of protoplasm being kept alive on society’s nickle, rendering me an overall drain on society that could be better put to use keeping someone alive who is useful to society. If I do get the double whammy, or even just the Alzheiemer’s I do fully intend to off myself, and my husband is good with my decision [we have had a number of long discussions about it.] I am not mentally ill [or more ill than most people] and feel that there is nothing negative in planning ahead - I can have one final party to say good bye to everybody, disburse my worldly goods and do things in an orderly fashion … and I see no reason why anybody other than my husband, my doctor and myself should have any say in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-libertarians-suicides-okay-right/264491/44 "2017-01-16T00:26:17Z")
I remember a case years ago: Married for 40-50 years, they pretty much “wore” each other like clothing. She was “permanent vegetative state”. He did the kindest thing a loving spouse could do under those circumstances: he put a bullet through her brain. Of course he was charged with “murder in the first degree”. More recently, a 70+ yr old man got in bed with his comatose wife. Everyone freaked. I tend to believe that he was hoping to give her some bit of comfort and security by re-creating a scene they had played out a few thousand times during the preceding 50+ years. The American way of dying is: sterile room, uncomfortable bed, do everything possible to keep the pump running, the Hell with what those who knew and loved the person that dying hulk once was feel or think. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-libertarians-suicides-okay-right/264491/45 "2017-01-26T00:38:43Z")
Social Libertarians: Suicide’s Okay, Right? Is it right? I wouldn’t say it’s right, but it certainly shouldn’t be illegal. Want to commit suicide? Knock yourself out… forever… once. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-libertarians-suicides-okay-right/264491.md?page=2)