# Social Mobility is terrible in the UK **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 11, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377 "2014-11-11T21:44:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377/41 "2014-11-16T03:59:34Z")
What worries me is that we are now coming up against a technology barrier to future useful employment. Robotics and automation mean jobs are disappearing, so where will our educated young go? Already we are seeing university graduates working in fast-food outlets and as shop assistants simply to hold a job - any job. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377/42 "2014-11-16T05:56:21Z")
Well tell me, in the UK do you really see areas of deep poverty? Does say London have ghettos and slums? Are there alot of homeless? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377/43 "2014-11-16T08:07:31Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > What worries me is that we are now coming up against a technology barrier to future useful employment. Robotics and automation mean jobs are disappearing, so where will our educated young go? Already we are seeing university graduates working in fast-food outlets and as shop assistants simply to hold a job - any job. Get proper degrees. That History of Art degree is good if you want to go to work for a gallery, but no so much otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377/44 "2014-11-16T10:43:45Z")
Yes I do understand. My daughter has just completed a double Bachelors of Arts in English and Media studies (invited to do Honours) from which she is likely to move to a Diploma In Teaching. That used to be a guaranteed pathway to a teaching career and she’d be good at it. But teaching jobs can no longer be taken for granted so I’m naturally worried where she will end up. She applied to be a dental assistant with a friend of ours but no luck. Even retail jobs applications are not bearing fruit - educated young adults are not ideal because they know more than the general staff and become bored quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377/45 "2014-11-16T10:59:43Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But we’re not talking about that, we’re talking about how the top tiers of society are increasingly becoming a closed shop where anyone outside it finds it increasingly difficult to get in. Which was exactly my point, the immense majority of that social mobility which took place in the time in which people think Rockefeller went from shining shoes to millionary _wasn’t at the top either_; the few cases which were at the top began in the middle and are few enough to be remembered. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377/46 "2014-11-16T12:42:13Z")
The internship thing is ridiculous. I did an internship when I left uni; I got “expenses” that paid about as much as my pub job, which I could still keep hold of because the internship was part-time, and I got offered paid work after only three months. I new a few other people doing similar things - they always got paid something, and they were learning really useful skills. Many internships are now a year long and some even require you to pay for the chance to get onto the internship programme. Fees for university have changed things a lot, too. It wasn’t that long ago that kids from poor and poorish families actually got a small grant to go to uni, and no fees (I did, and I’m 39; not enough to live on, but much better than nothing). This wouldn’t be as big a deal if there were more merit-based scholarships, but there are hardly any; still, it’s easier to access those that there are if you’re from a university-educated family that knows about them and knows what to put on the forms. There are still “grants” for really poor kids, but they don’t cover even a third of the fees. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > But then, even the “poor” in the UK. Do they really have it that bad? > > From what I can tell the UK doesnt have 3rd world poverty with families living in garbage dumps. Everyone in the UK gets free hospital care, education, food, clothing, and some assistance with housing. Doesnt mean ones flat is good but its 4 walls and a roof. > > However I often feel the powers in control like to give people that little bit of comfort so they dont complain too much about their lot in life. But statistics show that social mobility has decreased. Do you think those stats are lying? Free food and clothing? Where? Free education up to the age of 18, yes, and free healthcare. Some assistance with housing, but it’s often inadequate. In London housing benefit very rarely covers the cost of a privately-rented home, even a tiny one, because prices here are ridiculous. But people stay here because there’s work here. Agreed about the PTB giving that little bit of comfort to prevent complaints; that started in ancient Rome, the bread and circuses stuff. We don’t have third world poverty, but why bring that up when we’re talking about social mobility _within_ a country? It’s not just that it’s not pleasant being on the bottom of the heap, but that it’s not good for the country as a whole, for innovation and positive change, if social mobility is restricted. If the pool of the best artists and actors and even, to an extent, scientists, becomes restricted to the children of the rich then that’s a much smaller pool than when most people had a chance to do those things if they were good enough. With acting, local education authorities used to pay for particularly talented kids to go to drama school at secondary school age, and now they don’t. It’s really unusual to find a working actor under 30 from a working-class background now, but it used to be actually fairly common. > [@Filbert](#): > > The only ‘free clothing’ program I’m aware of is the job centre occasionally providing vouchers or buying work gear (mostly only available if you have a job offer, but need to supply your own safety boots or similar) and interview clothing for those who’ve been out of work for a while. It’s a limited amount, and its availability seems to depend on advisor’s attitude, so it’s probably not worth your while **Claverhouse**. That’s been stopped now too. All the back-to-work incentive schemes have been quietly dropped. The Tories only like the stick for poor people, not the carrot. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377/47 "2014-11-16T16:12:46Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well tell me, in the UK do you really see areas of deep poverty? Does say London have ghettos and slums? Are there alot of homeless? Some, yes. But now you’re redirecting the question. Even if nobody is technically in poverty, that’s not the point. The point is how easy or hard is it for anybody who isn’t at the top to work their way up. And how much easier or harder is it than it was a generation ago or a century ago or whatever. The implicit assumption in this post is that if everybody has their basic needs taken care of, they should know their station in life and not aspire to much more. That’s precisely the attitude people have been trying to fight. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377/48 "2014-11-16T21:42:58Z")
I wonder if false expectations are a part of it? People see success on TV, see they won’t rise to the very top, so don’t try; they think in terms of themselves rather than their families. If they tried their best they might not better their own lot but would better their children’s. But it’s still the case in many fields that if you have talent, you can succeed without any backing. Sport - particularly soccer - and music are the canonical examples. Another big problem is the older people on the scrapheap. It’s much more difficult for an older person to get a job after being unemployed. And these are the people with children, and it’s the children who suffer most. There’s a lot of concentration on youth unemployment but unemployment of the aged is brushed aside. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377/49 "2014-11-17T06:17:39Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > Yes I do understand. My daughter has just completed a double Bachelors of Arts in English and Media studies (invited to do Honours) from which she is likely to move to a Diploma In Teaching. That used to be a guaranteed pathway to a teaching career and she’d be good at it. > > But teaching jobs can no longer be taken for granted so I’m naturally worried where she will end up. She applied to be a dental assistant with a friend of ours but no luck. Even retail jobs applications are not bearing fruit - educated young adults are not ideal because they know more than the general staff and become bored quickly. That goes back to the 4 things an employer is looking at: 1. What is your experience? 2. Will you get along at this job? 3. How long will you stay? 4. What will you cost them? So #2 and #3 and employer will think she wont be happy at a retail job and she will always be looking to leave. Its like the pharmacy I go to the woman working behind the counter is an archeology major. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-mobility-is-terrible-in-the-uk/704377.md?page=2)