# Socialite Rebecca Grossman convicted two counts of gross vehicular manslaughter **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 24, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035 "2024-02-24T18:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/1 "2024-02-24T18:35:09Z")
Grossman had been out on a 2 million dollar bond. I’m pleasantly surprised her high dollar attorney’s didn’t get her off. Her Mercedes black box evidence and witnesses were compelling. It was a hit and run but the Mercedes accident sensor shut the car down a few blocks past the accident. Grossman will certainly appeal and drag this out another few years. Link [GUILTY: Verdict returned in trial of socialite accused of murder of two Westlake Village boys in hit and run | KCLU](https://www.kclu.org/2024-02-23/guilty-verdict-returned-in-trial-of-socialite-accused-of-murder-of-two-westlake-village-boys-in-hit-and-run) > [@](#): > > Judge Joseph Brandolino said “justice can no longer be delayed in this case,” as Grossman was handcuffed and led from the courtroom. She will be held in custody and sentencing will take place on April 10. > > Prosecutors said that Rebecca Grossman, the co-founder of the Grossman Burns Institute **was racing her boyfriend Scott Erickson, at “freeway speeds,”** in the residential area which has a speed limit of 45mph. Link [Southern California socialite Rebecca Grossman found guilty in crash that killed 2 young brothers - CBS Los Angeles](https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/rebecca-grossman-found-guilty-in-deadly-crash-that-killed-two-young-brothers/) > [@](#): > > During the trial, prosecutors claimed Grossman hit the children while they were in a crosswalk and drove away. The District Attorney’s Office claimed debris left at the scene matched Grossman’s white Mercedes-Benz SUV. She was allegedly speeding down the road and impaired. > > The prosecution claimed Grossman was going as fast as 81 mph, almost twice the legal speed limit, just seconds before the crash. Data from her car showed that she was driving at about 73 mph at the time of the crash, according to the district attorney’s office. > > A detective from the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department testified that Grossman’s sobriety test after the crash showed that she was legally drunk with a blood-alcohol content level of .08% ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/2 "2024-02-24T18:48:14Z")
Jesus Christ, although technically not explicit, that photograph is horrific given the story. If the only impact that caused the damage to the front of that Mercedes was two little boys they must have been utterly destroyed. I think that can’t be possible, right? There must have been some subsequent collision too. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/3 "2024-02-24T18:49:48Z")
Too be fair… the BAC in California is .08. Grossman barely met it. However, racing another car in a residential neighborhood and hit and run are contributing factors. Running down 2 kids and driving off is inexcusable. Link [What is the legal "BAC limit" for drivers in California?](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/dui/laws/bac/) > [@Riemann](#): > > I think that can’t be possible, right? There must have been some other collision. She was going almost 80mph at impact. The mother grabbed one child and jumped out of the way. There could have been 4 fatalities. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/4 "2024-02-24T18:51:18Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > However, racing another car in a residential neighborhood and hit and run are contributing factors. I mean, I sort of applaud your effort to try to extract some objectivity rather than sheer anger and outrage here, but what else “contributed” to their deaths? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/5 "2024-02-24T18:53:58Z")
Technically her alcohol level, under California law. It varies from state to state. .08 used to be legal in a lot of states. I google several states and they all reported .08 as the current BAC limit. It’s even lower for drivers with a commercial license. I gave up a beer with my pizza 25 years ago. I only drink at home now. I never drove after several drinks. DWI limits are very strict now, and it saves lives. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/6 "2024-02-24T18:55:00Z")
Oh okay, maybe I see what you’re saying. But I don’t see how the verdict should have been anything other than murder even if she had been soberly racing her boyfriend at 80mph. Is there a legal argument in that jurisdiction that the alcohol factor makes the difference between manslaughter and murder? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/7 "2024-02-24T19:06:56Z")
I don’t really know what pushes a vehicular accident from manslaughter to murder. I think if your driving the speed limit and stop after the accident, it’s possibly manslaughter? Speeding or DUI changes the charge? Grossman had 4 factors against her, 2 deaths, racing on public streets, DUI, and hit & run. Made the jury’s decision easy. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/8 "2024-02-24T19:07:17Z")
This is just disgusting. The accident happened in 2020 and it took until now. The defense claimed that the she was “only” driving 52 mph and that it was her boyfriend who hit the kids and then the kids flew up and hit her car which isn’t possible. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/9 "2024-02-24T19:12:47Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > The accident happened in 2020 and it took until now. And I assume she has been free on bail. At least the judge has _now_ put her in custody. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/10 "2024-02-24T19:15:19Z")
This is a much more complete article > **[Rebecca Grossman guilty of murder in killing of two young brothers. She vows...](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-02-23/rebecca-grossman-verdict)** > > A jury on Friday found Rebecca Grossman guilty of murder in the killing of two young brothers who were crossing a street in Westlake Village when her speeding Mercedes hit them in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/11 "2024-02-24T19:39:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Too be fair… the BAC in California is .08. Grossman barely met it. In my state you would have to fail a sobriety test before you are subjected to a chemical test. > [@aceplace57](#): > > However, racing another car in a residential neighborhood and hit and run are contributing factors. This and then some. I’d say it was the only factor. Any other factor is just a follow-on. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/12 "2024-02-24T19:40:39Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But I don’t see how the verdict should have been anything other than murder even if she had been soberly racing her boyfriend at 80mph. The defense strategy seems to have been, maybe the boyfriend hit the kids with _his_ car. And apparently the police botched the investigation enough that prosecutors had trouble disproving this in court. On a separate note, to convict for second-degree murder in California the prosecution had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt: 1. The defendant had a legal duty to drive at/below the speed limit free from the influence of alcohol and avoid injuring pedestrians and the defendant failed to perform that duty and that failure caused the death of two children; AND 2. When the defendant failed to act, she had a state of mind called malice aforethought. There are two kinds of malice aforethought, express malice and implied malice. Proof of either is sufficient to establish the state of mind required for murder. 1. ~~The defendant had express malice if she unlawfully intended to kill~~ (not applicable here). 2. The defendant had implied malice if: 1. She intentionally failed to act; 2. The natural and probable consequences of the failure to act were dangerous to human life; 3. At the time she failed to act, she knew her failure to act was dangerous to human life; AND 4. She deliberately failed to act with conscious disregard for human life. 3. AND She killed without lawful excuse or justification. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/13 "2024-02-24T19:45:21Z")
She had a history of driving too fast _and_ bragging about it on social media. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/14 "2024-02-24T20:03:06Z")
Some key facts from that more extensive article. > Grossman, Castro [prosecutor] said, showed conscious disregard for human life and knew her speed could be dangerous on a suburban street with pedestrian traffic because **police had warned her of the dangers in the past** … " **She had a history of speeding. She’d texted about it** ,” Castro said. “She acted with disregard for human life.” > Prosecutors also alleged that Grossman traveled a third of a mile after slamming into the children before safety features in her car automatically shut it down. So she didn’t _ever_ stop voluntarily. > Jacob was found near the curb about 50 feet from the crosswalk. He was taken to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead a few hours later. **Mark’s body was found 254 feet away.** > Prosecutors accused Grossman of reaching 81 mph before lightly braking and hitting the brothers at 73 mph, based on the car’s data recorder and the distance Mark was found from the crosswalk. But Buzbee [defense] called in experts who testified that the data weren’t reliable and that Grossman was traveling at 52 mph based on a video captured seconds after the collision. The daughter’s tears are misplaced. If there’s any injustice here is not that her mother is being punished too harshly, it’s that the guy who she was racing who only managed not to kill people through dumb luck isn’t _also_ getting a harsh punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/15 "2024-02-24T20:21:03Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The daughter’s tears are misplaced. Theyr’e not misplaced, Rebecca Grossman didn’t just hurt the Iskander family her actions ended up hurting the people she loved as well. If someone I loved was sent to prison for a long, long time, even if I thought they deserved it, I’d probably cry too. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/16 "2024-02-24T20:21:04Z")
I don’t know anything about this case and haven’t read the articles yet, but how can there be any doubt about whether the boyfriend’s car hit the kids? If it did, it would have obvious damage like her car does, right? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/17 "2024-02-24T20:22:37Z")
~~As I said, police botched the investigation. They didn’t inspect boyfriend’s car, apparently.~~ ETA: retracted unless I can find the article where I read that. But there was some sort of issue with the breathalyzer test. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/18 "2024-02-24T20:23:10Z")
never mind, what I wrote didn’t make any sense ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/19 "2024-02-24T20:47:09Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > I don’t know anything about this case and haven’t read the articles yet, but how can there be any doubt about whether the boyfriend’s car hit the kids? If it did, it would have obvious damage like her car does, right? It seems the defense raised this theory without calling the boyfriend as a witness or introducing evidence of the boyfriend’s car. Prosecutors likely had no notice that this was the defense strategy going into the trial and so probably weren’t prepared with evidence of boyfriend’s car. Defense attorneys may have forced police to admit they did not question boyfriend or examine his car _on the night of the accident_, and left it at that. Note, their strategy failed. Anyways if you really want to read the defense case you can visit their [propaganda site](https://rebeccagrossmanfacts.site/). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035/20 "2024-02-24T20:56:24Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Anyways if you really want to read the defense case you can visit their [propaganda site](https://rebeccagrossmanfacts.site/). I just skimmed that and had to back out of it. Absolutely disgusting. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialite-rebecca-grossman-convicted-two-counts-of-gross-vehicular-manslaughter/998035.md?page=2)