# Socialized medicine: WSJ plays the ol' "Canada card" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418 "2004-04-28T02:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/21 "2004-04-30T01:51:58Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Chew on this: an MRI will run you about $800. Pretend you’re uninsured but you’ve GOT to have an MRI. I don’t know about the whole country, but where I live you’re gonna get your MRI even if you tell them up front that you can’t pay. > > I don’t believe an MRI actually costs $800. Yes, I know the equipment is expensive. And you’ve gotta pay whoever runs the machine, electricity, etc. But $800 a pop? No way. > > I suspect that the $800 not only covers the cost of _your_ MRI, but the cost (at least partially) of someone else’s as well. The medical community sure as hell isn’t going to operate without the promise of big profits (not that I expect them to, don’t get me wrong), so they jack up the prices to make up for the people that can’t pay. So yeah, we kinda do have socialized medicine. Those with health insurance pay outrageous costs, and those who can’t pay, don’t, yet still get the same treatment. (Yes I realize this may not totally be the case in some parts of the country. I’m generalizing and oversimplifying.) Out of interest, where do you live? What sort of MRI? I ask because over here we pay $400 for a brain based MRI - in private sector. But if my doctor sent me to take the scan, I would only have to pay $30 and the government would pick up the rest, whatever the rest is (possibly a lower agreed upon price between state and service provider). ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/22 "2004-04-30T02:34:57Z")
West Virginia. Perhaps healthcare is more expensive here because we’re right around #1 for medical malpractice lawsuits. Doctors pay more for malpractice insurance so maybe they’re passing the costs on to the patients. As far as what sort of MRI, AFAIK the price is the same whether they’re looking at your brain or your spine. I could be wrong, though. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/23 "2004-04-30T02:39:40Z")
As a Canuck living in the U.S., I find a lot of stuff about American health care quite scary. The first thing I noticed when I moved here is people’s teeth: they’re missing. When was the last time you saw a cashier missing her front teeth? Here in NYC, it’s uncommon but not unheard of. I tend to spot about one cashier a week… Granted, Canadian Health Care doesn’t cover dental care, but I think that the money in your pocket that you don’t spend on going to a doctor ends up going to your teeth. Second is the bills. I’ve got a decent health care plan, with a minimal co-pay, but the insurance company still sends me the bills they’re paying out, which nearly induces cardiac arrest! $450 for a teeth cleaning, $450 for an eye exam, I don’t wanna know how much for a physical. Luckily I’m only shelling out $10, but often the insurance company doesn’t pay that full amount either, leaving the doctor hanging, which I’m guessing means the doctor tries to recoup costs further down the road by hiking fees-- something that doesn’t happen up North because the government imposes what doctors are allowed to charge. As for Lemieux-- Omigawd! Canadians actually _get_ something back from their taxes!!! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/24 "2004-04-30T03:46:51Z")
> [@MrFantsyPants](#): > > As a Canadian with many friends and relatives that have been through the healthcare system here, I feel compelled to defend it. > > From what I have seen, wait times are not an issue except for low priority surgeries. The quality of care has always been excellent. My only complaint would be that no matter how rich you are, you can’t buy you way to the front of the line. The other weird American myth about the Canadian system is this “well, I want to be able to choose my doctor, and you can’t do that in Canada thing.” Must be the bizarro alternate universe Canada. I picked my doctor. In fact, I picked the last two. I switched because I decided the first place I went to sucked ass. So I went shopping and found a new one. One the other hand, my best friend, who lives in California, didn’t pick his doctor. His HMO did; they told him to go to a doctor 45 minutes away, and that he didn’t have any choice in the matter unless he wants to drive further. Strange that no doctors were closer given that he lives in San Jose. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/25 "2004-05-01T01:18:52Z")
I was going to mention that. It is very weird and I wonder where it got started. (Gee, I seem to recall getting a referral and deciding that the guy was OK… I don’t remember the government agents frog-marching me to Medical Facility #964.) ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/26 "2004-05-01T01:57:32Z")
The other propaganda that I’ve heard is about a guy going to a dentist but having no money. The dentist being unable to refuse to treat (!), then does a substandard job on his teeth. I mean, there’s so many things wrong with that I barely know where to start. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/27 "2004-05-01T02:32:01Z")
Last week I had a fall while browsing in one of the book stalls on the Left Bank. Since I had a mild head trauma with bleeding, one of the kind Frenchmen who stopped to help called an ambulance for the purpose of cleaning the wound and accessing the need for a visit to an emergency room. So away I went to the neighborhood hospital. I saw a doctor almost immediately. She even decided to give me a mini-physical including listening to my heart and lungs, checking reflexes, etc. One tentnus shot and a bandaid later and I was out the door. All of it took place in less than an hour. The bill arrived Tuesday: $20 Euros for _everything_. Healthcare costs in the USA make me sick. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/28 "2004-05-01T02:33:52Z")
Looking at the often-ignored mental health industry in America, one could bring up the point that the people (at least there, and I’m sure this applies to many normal diseases as well, for the lower income brackets) who need it **most** get covered the **least** in America. The mentally ill frequently are unemployable or have low employment prospects - and most often, lack significant incomes and health care. Thus, they are unable to get medication and therapy, and are thus unemployable, and it continues to snowball until they end up on SSI and living in the streets. Believe me, I know about this first hand, and by “mental illness” I’m not talking about mild depression. We’re looking at schizophrenics, schizo-effectives, severe anxiety disorders, and other heavy duty stuff that lays people out. It scares the crap out of me, because I’m not afraid to say that I’m in this group of people, and I leave my father’s work insurance next year. If I can’t afford my meds, which come in at $300-$400 per bottle, and I’m on 3 different meds, there is no way in hell I can function. I can’t pop $1000 a month on meds alone (not counting psychiatrists, therapists, and hospitalizations) (BTW, SSI isn’t even enough to cover the meds, just enough for rent and food). So then, I’m 25 and on the street with no meds and schizophrenia. This is a DEPLORABLE situation. Go on a visit to your local mental ward for your horror stories, if you can stand being there. These are people who get picked up off the street by the police, diagnosed, then released back. They cost the system a LOT of money in SSI and various police and city work, in addition to realizing that they’re all people who could be being treated and productive. There are similar situations with physical health issues - my uncle had his back destroyed, subsequently lost his job, and now doesn’t have insurance to cover it so he can get back to work. IMHO, the SOCIAL benefits of having every person covered FAR outweigh the fiscal price of it. If a few people slip through the cracks under socialized medicare, frankly, so what? FAR more slip through the cracks in private medicare. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/29 "2004-05-01T08:11:47Z")
**Abbie Carmichael** , the NZ system is not perfect but they do not make a habit of letting people die. I’m sure there is a lot more to that story than you are saying. NZ is a country where it is very difficult to sue for medical malpractice. My child had salmonella and was hospitalised for a week, very close to death. We didn’t pay a cent for his care which was excellent. Here in Australia, I’ve not had a lot of problems with waiting lists. My younger kid had surgery in Feb. It was elective surgery and the wait was 2 weeks. We’re waiting for an EEG this month and that was a waiting list of 4 weeks. My older kid had an MRI year before last and it was free to us and the appointment was literally the next day. He’s on 4 different medication including one of the new antipsychotics which is expensive. I pay $16 a month for those. Oh and we do choose our doctors. I see my developmental paed and gastro privately which costs me about $40 per visit. The rest is picked up by medicare. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/30 "2004-05-01T14:32:42Z")
> [@MrFantsyPants](#): > > My only complaint would be that no matter how rich you are, you can’t buy you way to the front of the line. Whenever I hear an American complaining about Universal Health Care, I suspect that this is the part they’re actually upset about. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418/31 "2004-05-01T17:11:53Z")
I heard from someone in Japan that there used to be a two-tier system: one that cost extra money and gave you better care. This was apparently a while ago. Whatever system the US eventually goes with, there will be plenty of kinks to iron out. The US is too proud to learn from other countries, so I guess it will have to fall on its face numerous times and learn that way. We might as well get started. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialized-medicine-wsj-plays-the-ol-canada-card/242418.md?page=1)