# Socially acceptable ways of talking about below average looks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 11, 2014, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178 "2014-05-11T08:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/21 "2014-05-12T06:04:36Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I have not been in a position wherein I needed to describe any woman’s looks (in terms of ‘attractiveness’) in over thirty years. What possible type of social interaction would require that among adults? My wife talks about how attractive women are to her friends and sometimes to me. She says that she has average looks (not that I was asking her opinion). ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/22 "2014-05-12T06:05:57Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > You realize she likely suffers from some mental illness, right? The plot thickens… ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/23 "2014-05-12T06:16:18Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > John Clay, nobody will mind much if you describe a woman you don’t know personally, in conversation with other men, as a " five" of any other number. This woman, would probably rate for men who are not attracted to obesity, as a two or three. Who’s talking about numbers? I was asking about what is “socially appropriate”… > [@](#): > > …People got annoyed with you when you kept describing, in your earlier threads, your wife (then fiancee) as “a five”. Why? Because social mores say you don’t describe a woman you know personally, or interact with professionally, in such number terms. It is viewed as unpolite and dumb/sexist because you’re supposed to see (and talk about) such women as individuals, as your friends/relatives, or worthy of professional respect… Well sometimes I’m exploring boundaries to learn things for myself. But like you said that was in earlier threads. Now I see my wife as mostly attractive. BTW when I look at another woman I usually soon find what I consider a flaw. That makes me feel good because in a way they’re equivalent to my wife - they have some flaws. That probably didn’t come out right. ---
**Author:** ![akaii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@akaii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akaii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/24 "2014-05-12T06:43:06Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > What do you think about this photo? > > [Mod Note: NSFW Link](http://files-cdn.formspring.me/photos/20120627/n4feb5e74897e0.jpg) > > What if this woman was attracted to you - what would you think? What…did… I…Just…look …at? ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/25 "2014-05-12T07:02:29Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > …Aside: The picture was probably made either, prior to weight loss surgery. Or, even more probably, as an medical evidence picture to qualify for (medical insurance coverage for) plastic surgery to remove her excess belly skin and fat. The woman in the picture clearly does not try to pose in an attractive way… That doesn’t explain her finger pointing to her chin. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/26 "2014-05-12T07:16:13Z")
> [@Nikki\_Tikki\_Tavi](#): > > Oh you do not. If my memory serves me correctly, **JohnClay** lives in a part of our fine country where seeing people as depicted in the photo in the OP is not likely to be necessarily all that unusual. (Have I used enough qualifiers there??) 🙂 **JohnClay** seems to lack the filter process that most psychologically and socially healthy folk possess. I’m sure we all remember as wee kids blurting out something horribly inappropriate to embarrass our parents…“Mummy, LOOK AT THE PREGNANT LADY?” (for the obese lady). “Mummy, WHY IS THAT MAN SO DIRTY?” (for the gentleman with darker skin). **JohnClay** appears to have missed a few developmental milestones along the way and is inclined to post stuff here on the board that most of us outgrew by the time we were 7 or 8 yrs old. We learned the niceties of social interaction (either by our mum/dad giving us the ‘LOOK OF DEATH’, or even a goodly slap on the arse for our rudeness). So, giving him the benefit of the doubt (that he’s not just a creepy troll) it’s up to us to educate **JohnClay** in the ways of the world. He claims he’s exploring boundaries…I suggest we slap him silly every time he breaches them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/27 "2014-05-12T07:36:48Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > If my memory serves me correctly, **JohnClay** lives in a part of our fine country where seeing people as depicted in the photo in the OP is not likely to be necessarily all that unusual. Actually it is unusual where I live to see a belly like that. That’s why I am shocked by it. More soon… ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/28 "2014-05-12T07:40:38Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Actually it is unusual where I live to see a belly like that. Mate…it’s unusual ANYWHERE to see a belly as extreme as that, except on the internet. (Oh, fuck, can we please have the old smilies back…y’know, the :: rolleyes :: one?) :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/29 "2014-05-12T07:47:51Z")
I have noticed (or was informed before hand) of some females who have taken to me favorably. Some of them had unfortunate aspects. But I find it complementing all the same, and I treat all of them the best way I can in payment. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/30 "2014-05-12T07:57:20Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > … **JohnClay** seems to lack the filter process that most psychologically and socially healthy folk possess… I filter things I say on this board under the assumption that it is anonymous far less than my regular speech. > [@](#): > > I’m sure we all remember as wee kids blurting out something horribly inappropriate to embarrass our parents… We learned the niceties of social interaction (either by our mum/dad giving us the ‘LOOK OF DEATH’, or even a goodly slap on the arse for our rudeness). Well I was raised to be nice. I still have quite a hard time saying swear words. Lately I’ve started to say them jokingly to my wife. (I think she started it though) As far as the “look of death” goes, I only learnt about body language when I was a late teenager I think, from a book. Before that I didn’t used to give people eye contact - unless I was staring at them. One girl gave me the middle finger when I stared at her too much on a bus (when I was starting high school). BTW at school I’d do things that people told me to do without thinking. Even highly inappropriate things. I did that once at university too. BTW at high school I considered myself a day-dreamer. Then in university I wished I could relive school so that I could get girls, etc. > [@](#): > > So, giving him the benefit of the doubt (that he’s not just a creepy troll) Well in university I strongly identified with Radiohead’s song “Creep” (“I’m a creep - I’m a weirdo - what the hell am I doing here…”) BTW I never really got seriously teased or criticised until I was in university. About a year ago a girl from school said “sorry we used to say those things about you in school”. I said “what things?” and on facebook I asked again - I really wanted to know - but then she unfriended me. BTW when I was in university I was interested in a girl who had started high school. My dad said that her father said something about it but I said that the girl never seemed to express anything negative to me. It gets worse than that too. Then on the other hand a guy was harshly teased for dating a girl about two girls younger than him. My earliest memory of rejection was when I was about 5 and I asked to play with a boy and he said no. From then on I didn’t initiate things much. I never really thought deeply into things relating to social situations - on the other hand now I can discuss the nuances about things for a long time. > [@](#): > > it’s up to us to educate **JohnClay** in the ways of the world. He claims he’s exploring boundaries…I suggest we slap him silly every time he breaches them. I’ve figured most of it out now I think. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/31 "2014-05-12T08:02:11Z")
BTW I used to just listen to people’s words - I was oblivious to all other forms of communication unless they were extreme. Then I learnt that a girl giving excuses about why she can’t meet doesn’t necessarily mean it… she is just trying to avoid a confrontation or something. But I’d just try and find a way past the excuses and assuming that they were being completely open and honest about those alledged issues. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/32 "2014-05-12T08:09:32Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > …Aside: The picture was probably made either, prior to weight loss surgery. Or, even more probably, as an medical evidence picture to qualify for (medical insurance coverage for) plastic surgery to remove her excess belly skin and fat. The woman in the picture clearly does not try to pose in an attractive way… I didn’t think you were right but it turns out you are about her prospects for surgery: > **[Surgery for extreme belly fat?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=723209)** > > Possibly NSFW: Can much be done surgically about this woman’s belly? I was under the impression that liposuction is mainly for fat under the skin rather than belly fat and that tummy tucks aren’t for extreme cases… I’m partly asking due to a guy... ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/33 "2014-05-12T08:13:39Z")
BTW when I’ve been unwell I’ve sometimes used what I’ve learnt about body language and acted like I was super-confident (taking up huge amounts of space, etc) BTW I once read a book that said that life is like a stage show and you should adopt your role but that you are actually a perfect observer. That caused me to become more detached and I also questioned it - I thought I’d just adopt whatever role I feel like at the time. So rather than copying how other people acted (though I’d never really done that) I’d think up new approaches to things. Now if I find a bit of humor I like, etc, I’d remember it and use it on my wife, etc. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/34 "2014-05-12T08:21:28Z")
I’ve had a long history of not conforming. When I began a new school at about the age of 6 or 7 I’d have a book and for a while I’d write lots of consecutive numbers in it. I was terrified of school excursions for a while and when the class was away on a camp I’d sometimes kick a large stone around during recess. In high school I made friends with the weirdos (not that anyone called them that). At church I’d always leave soon after it was finished and I visit the pastor’s son and we’d play on the computer. I haven’t thought very deeply about a lot of that. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/35 "2014-05-12T10:34:25Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > What do you think about this photo? > > [Mod Note: NSFW Link](http://files-cdn.formspring.me/photos/20120627/n4feb5e74897e0.jpg) > > Perhaps if you can’t say anything good it is better not to say anything at all? > > What if this woman was attracted to you - what would you think? Easy. Your mama so ugly, her parents had to tie a pork chop on her neck so the dog would play with her. Now, substitute “That bitch” for “Your mama”, and you’re good to go. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/36 "2014-05-12T11:10:17Z")
So, **JC** , do you see any irony in your reaction to a mentally ill person, given that others may be similarly reacting to you? Are you “better” than the woman in the picture? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/37 "2014-05-12T12:57:20Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So, **JC** , do you see any irony in your reaction to a mentally ill person, given that others may be similarly reacting to you? Are you “better” than the woman in the picture? So **kayaker** do you see any irony in your reaction to another poster, given that I am similarly reacting to you? Are you “better” than **JC**? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/38 "2014-05-12T13:39:37Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > So **kayaker** do you see any irony in your reaction to another poster, given that I am similarly reacting to you? Are you “better” than **JC**? No, I don’t think I’m subjectively “better” than JohnClay. He is so open about his mental illness, I’m just curious about whether or not he has empathy in situations like this. Now **you** , I think are better than me,but just a little. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/39 "2014-05-12T13:45:34Z")
If I may interject a personal observation, I actually do feel I am “better” than just about everyone who posts here. This comes with being a pompous, pretentious and condescending person. ---
**Author:** ![mage-girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@mage-girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mage-girl)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178/40 "2014-05-12T20:02:15Z")
My goodness. As a “big” girl myself (but not that big) I would feel kind of sorry for her. I saw a lady on the bus today with a motorized cart sort of thing. She must have been 500lb. While I did wonder how she got to be so big, I also felt bad for her. Unless you’re someone’s doctor/friend/family member, you never know WHY they’re overweight, so you shouldn’t be judgmental. However, if you don’t find truly obese people attractive, that’s your preference. Don’t expect me to agree with your opinion or pat you on the back for it however. 🙂 I think a good response if you were romantically approached by someone who you found unattractive would be “I’m flattered by your interest, but I’m not really interested in a relationship/I’m too busy for a relationship right now. But thanks. Really.” Most people with any amount of social skills will realize you’re trying to gently brush them off and let it go. There’s no need to be all “No way! You are fat and disgusting and WTF is wrong with you? How dare you contact me???” No sense in being mean to someone without a good reason. We’re all flawed to some degree or another. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socially-acceptable-ways-of-talking-about-below-average-looks/688178.md?page=3)