# Society changing into a Rental Society **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809 "2015-06-18T00:33:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/101 "2015-06-19T00:14:07Z")
Why are we accepting the assertion without evidence? \*Do \*more people rent today? Doesn’t that depend on when “then” is? From 1999 until just now, home ownership was indeed higher than today. But the overall trend is still for greater home ownership than in the past in the US. [More people own today than in 1965 and every year until 1998.](http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/HomeownershipRateQ42010.jpg) So from a very limited perspective, fewer people own “today” - as long as “then” is limited to the past 20 years. And really, the swing here isn’t very much - it’s all within 60something percent since the 1960s. Just over half. In 1920, [only one in four Americans owned their own homes](http://blog.cleveland.com/pdgraphics/2008/01/Eras%20in%20home%20ownership.pdf). \*Most \*rented. During the Industrial Revolution homes were still mostly rentals, sometimes owned by a few rich landlords, sometimes by the business employing the workers. Feudal times had very very few landowners. Almost everyone rented their farm from a landlord. In agrarian societies, ovens were often communal, tools were often communal, mills were communal. The ownership papers (if there were any) may have been in a single person’s name, but everyone had the right of use…indeed at least some times and places it was \*illegal \*to build a mill, own a mill, and grind your own flour at home, because use of the mill came with a tax (a rent) to be paid. Hunters and gatherers built new homes out of whatever materials they could find in the area. If they found a cave or a dwelling that used to be inhabited by another group but was now empty, they’d move in for a while, not unlike sharing a car no one else is using at the moment. (The difference being that _no one_ owned it. I suppose one might consider repairs or improvements that the next group would benefit from a form of “rent,” but that’s probably stretching the definition a bit.) I’m going to challenge the premise of the OP. I think that a majority (although not even much of a majority) of personal ownership of homes and copious amounts of personal property was a flash in the pan, as far as human experience goes. We’re not “turning into a rental society,” we have always \*been \*a rental/sharing species, and briefly dabbled in ownership for 100 years or so. We tried it, it got out of hand, and now we’re going back to what we’ve been doing for almost all of the time humans have been on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/102 "2015-06-19T00:20:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yes, and that is an example of how government/public/subsidization activities increase _everyone’s_ wealth. > > Subsidizing transportation reduces costs for everyone. It makes cities more livable and pleasant for everyone. It saves everyone time. It lets people live healthier lives. It lets people more time (to care for their children, to engage in charity, to engage in creative work or entrepreneurship). It makes services cheaper. > > The same thing is true for subsidized education, subsidized child care, subsidized health care, and all kinds of other things. > > A world in which everyone around you is more secure, more healthy, more happy, etc., is a world in which _you_ are more secure, more healthy, more happy, etc. > > Looking at a subsidy solely as an expense ignores the fact that it makes living cheaper for everyone and makes everyone wealthier. Good point. The subsidy has to be paid by someone and remember that there is only one taxpayer and we are pushing these costs onto the millennials whether this is justified or not ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/103 "2015-06-19T00:26:39Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > NThat you live in a house you didn’t build, listen to music you didn’t record, and use software you didn’t write isn’t surprising, but the fact that you are more likely to rent that house than own it, listen to music on Spotify than buy CDs, and pay a monthly fee for that software as a service rather than buy a CD-ROM is new. Perhaps soon you’ll subscribe to a wardrobe service, so you can always have new and well-maintained clothes to wear. Paying people to store and maintain items is a part of specialization. One of the big appeals of renting is that you don’t have to come home from work and be a part-time property manager. One of the advantages of cloud software for businesses is that they don’t have to pay their own IT staff to maintain patches and new versions. Even with Spotify, one advantage is that you don’t have to be a music expert to find new music. The wardrobe service already exists- check out Le Tote and Rent the Runway. ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/104 "2015-06-19T00:29:47Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Why are we accepting the assertion without evidence? \*Do \*more people rent today? Doesn’t that depend on when “then” is? > > From 1999 until just now, home ownership was indeed higher than today. But the overall trend is still for greater home ownership than in the past in the US. [More people own today than in 1965 and every year until 1998.](http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/HomeownershipRateQ42010.jpg) So from a very limited perspective, fewer people own “today” - as long as “then” is limited to the past 20 years. And really, the swing here isn’t very much - it’s all within 60something percent since the 1960s. Just over half. > > In 1920, [only one in four Americans owned their own homes](http://blog.cleveland.com/pdgraphics/2008/01/Eras%20in%20home%20ownership.pdf). \*Most \*rented. > > During the Industrial Revolution homes were still mostly rentals, sometimes owned by a few rich landlords, sometimes by the business employing the workers. > > Feudal times had very very few landowners. Almost everyone rented their farm from a landlord. > > In agrarian societies, ovens were often communal, tools were often communal, mills were communal. The ownership papers (if there were any) may have been in a single person’s name, but everyone had the right of use…indeed at least some times and places it was \*illegal \*to build a mill, own a mill, and grind your own flour at home, because use of the mill came with a tax (a rent) to be paid. > > Hunters and gatherers built new homes out of whatever materials they could find in the area. If they found a cave or a dwelling that used to be inhabited by another group but was now empty, they’d move in for a while, not unlike sharing a car no one else is using at the moment. (The difference being that _no one_ owned it. I suppose one might consider repairs or improvements that the next group would benefit from a form of “rent,” but that’s probably stretching the definition a bit.) > > I’m going to challenge the premise of the OP. I think that a majority (although not even much of a majority) of personal ownership of homes and copious amounts of personal property was a flash in the pan, as far as human experience goes. We’re not “turning into a rental society,” we have always \*been \*a rental/sharing species, and briefly dabbled in ownership for 100 years or so. We tried it, it got out of hand, and now we’re going back to what we’ve been doing for almost all of the time humans have been on the planet. Good point. It is probably my perspective on this that I am noticing this becoming more prevalent. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/105 "2015-06-19T00:46:09Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I’m going to challenge the premise of the OP. I think that a majority (although not even much of a majority) of personal ownership of homes and copious amounts of personal property was a flash in the pan, as far as human experience goes. It was more than a flash in the pan. It was the result of intentional government subsidies of mortgages to private persons to allow them to become property owners. It is also significant that black people were intentionally excluded from this benefit and it accounts for a large proportion of the inter-generational wealth of white families in America. It was part of the governmental activity—including supporting unionization and other labor laws—that created the American middle class in the 20th century. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/106 "2015-06-19T00:53:24Z")
> [@ssgenius](#): > > Is it just me, or do I see Society in general (especially with the later generation) turning into a rental society > > Take a look at the Uber argument. People would rather rent a vehicle and driver rather than own one for them selves > > Same thing with phones. They have become a rental thing. > > It seems to be that the usual mode of operation among the younger generation is to rent rather than buy. > > Am I the only one who has noticed this ? Nope. You just looked at a duck and said, “Ooh, look, a pig.” 25 years ago, living in my NYC outer borough apartment, I would have killed for the convenience of Zipcar for that ~one day a month where it would have been the more convenient option. I don’t know anyone who “rents” phones. Only the most clueless subsidize the phones, then neither change nor renegotiate when the initial contract is up. Uber has forced the NY Taxi and Limo Commission to advance kicking and screaming into the 20th century, and again is a huge boon to those of us in the outer boroughs. Baby steps. Personally, I have shelves of VHS, DVDs, and CDs whose only purpose is to be a surface for dust to land on. What a waste. I’d throw them out, but every time I grab a trash bag my wife has a fainting spell.\* On Demand delivery is a huge improvement, and less costly. Heck, I even still have a VHS player and cassette decks, just in case someone wants to play one. (Help me, please!) For the record, I’m either a late boomer or an early Gen-Xer (hmmm, wiki says I’m a first year Gen-Xer, whatever that might mean as a marketing demographic). As for home ownership, it is down currently for several reasons already laid out, and I’d like to add that maybe younger people are getting smarter about the myth of the greatness of home ownership. That’s not to say home ownership is bad (we own), but it is not a universally good thing for everybody, like boomers and gen-x were led to believe (yay marketing). \*That’s an exaggeration. Somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/107 "2015-06-19T00:57:18Z")
Same thing with movies. People don’t want to own movies but rent movies through the internet. Look at walmart, target or best buy they hardly have any thing for movies these days. Well before I could walk into best buy get any new movie or TV show like CSI,NCIS ,star trek ,stargate so on. Now not the case. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/108 "2015-06-19T01:04:59Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It was more than a flash in the pan. It was the result of intentional government subsidies of mortgages to private persons to allow them to become property owners. It is also significant that black people were intentionally excluded from this benefit and it accounts for a large proportion of the inter-generational wealth of white families in America. > > It was part of the governmental activity—including supporting unionization and other labor laws—that created the American middle class in the 20th century. Sure. By “flash in the pan,” I meant shortlived, not accidental. 80 years of US history vs. 200,000 years of human existence. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/109 "2015-06-19T01:35:48Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > But libraries are free. Not all of them. At a prior job I used a medical library that charged a membership to all users. Public libraries in the US are free, but not all libraries in the US are public, private ones can charge fees. For that matter, over the years I’ve known public libraries to charge fees for certain services and certainly they still charge late fees. Admittedly, slightly nitpicking but it is incorrect that all libraries are free. Just most of them in the US. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/110 "2015-06-19T01:44:24Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > **One of the big appeals of renting is that you don’t have to come home from work and be a part-time property manager**. Bolding mine. MANY of us love this. To be in control of our homes. That to me is what home is. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/111 "2015-06-19T01:48:43Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Bolding mine. MANY of us love this. To be in control of our homes. That to me is what home is. I rented about half my adult life, owned for (so far) just over half. I was fortunate in that one long-time rental was a lot like owning in that I could do almost anything and make repairs up to things like replacing the water heater… and simply pass the costs to the owner. I paid a sub-market rent for almost 13 years because he knew the place was being maintained at zero added cost to him. I love having to answer to no one\* - not even a mortgage company - about anything I want to do or change or whatever. But then, I am very high on the DIY competence and experience scale, which makes a big difference. - Sorry for the pause. Had to see if the Mrs. was looking this way. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/112 "2015-06-19T01:48:52Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > But libraries are free. Nope. No they are not. It may be your taxes or your landlords taxes (that are passed on to you). But they are not free. Nor is public schooling. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/113 "2015-06-19T02:20:36Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Bolding mine. MANY of us love this. To be in control of our homes. That to me is what home is. That’s fine. But that’s a hobby. Some people like sewing so that they can get exactly the dress they want. Same thing. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/114 "2015-06-19T03:24:58Z")
Home ownership has increased greatly over the last 100 years. Note these figures from the US Census: [HOMEOWNERSHIP RATES](http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/census/historic/owner.html) The current rate is 64%, so it has fallen a bit since the slump, but frankly, there were a lot of people who bought homes that really couldn’t afford them. I remember when videos first came out, the video stores would rent the VCRs along with the tapes. Now, of course, people are choosing to subscribe to Netflix instead of buying DVDs. StG ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/115 "2015-06-19T04:04:15Z")
Anyone ever pick up a dead (disconnected) phone (old-fashioned land line)? Disconcerting, wasn’t it - you pick up a phone, there is a dial tone. Always. Forever. Except for a day or two in SF back in 1989, when all of the lines were busy. Yes, all of them. Loma Prieta quake. For all those who depend on the web for entertainment - do you even have an antenna for your TV? Do you have a TV at all? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/116 "2015-06-19T06:12:36Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > That’s fine. But that’s a hobby. Some people like sewing so that they can get exactly the dress they want. Same thing. My “rent” hasn’t increased in 17 years. How about yours? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/117 "2015-06-19T10:32:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > My “rent” hasn’t increased in 17 years. How about yours? Dude, I’ve moved 14 times in the last 10 years, including five intercontinental moves. That’s fine that you love owning, but that doesn’t change that renting is the right choice for some people- including people who don’t like doing maintenance. If you want to get down to brass tacks, I’m actually paying $100 more per month than my first apartment in 2001. Considering I had four years and some intervals when I didn’t pay rent at all (overseas postings) and have never had to replace a roof, pay a plumber or now a lawn, I think it’s actually worked out quite well. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/118 "2015-06-19T10:40:49Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > My “rent” hasn’t increased in 17 years. How about yours? Do you think owning is always a better financial decision over renting? Because if you do, there are plenty of experts who’d disagree with you. I agree with **even sven** reply to **enipla**. Buying a home because you’re into DIYing is fine, but if future generations decide they’d rather spend their weekends creating Smart Phone apps and tutoring poor kids rather than doing household repairs and building things in the garage, I fail to see why we should weep over the downfall of society. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/119 "2015-06-19T10:46:01Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > My “rent” hasn’t increased in 17 years. How about yours? Actually… No, my rent hasn’t changed in 16 years. Really. And it’s real rent. Admittedly, I have an unusually good rental situation, but that’s part of what makes renting preferable to owning in my particular situation. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809/120 "2015-06-19T12:09:49Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Not all of them. At a prior job I used a medical library that charged a membership to all users. Public libraries in the US are free, but not all libraries in the US are public, private ones can charge fees. For that matter, over the years I’ve known public libraries to charge fees for certain services and certainly they still charge late fees. > > Admittedly, slightly nitpicking but it is incorrect that all libraries are free. Just most of them in the US. And public libraries are not necessarily free\* to everyone. I’ve known a number of people who lived in towns/cities that were not part of a public library system. They could pay a fee to become a member of a nearby public library. - Yes, I know none of them are really “free” as they are supported by taxes. But my taxes don’t go down if I don’t use the library and some people don’t pay any taxes that go towards supporting the library at all. People don’t pay income taxes if their income is too low and they don’t pay property taxes if they neither rent nor own property. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/society-changing-into-a-rental-society/722809.md?page=7)