# Sodomy is constitutional - AND STROM THURMOND DIES!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696 "2003-06-27T03:50:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/201 "2003-06-29T02:51:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*Again, I hardly think I was putting words in anyone’s mouth. I think what Thurmond represents and what Hussein represents are two decidedly different things – not just in degree, but of kind. I continue to think it foolish to suggest, even implicitly, that one is analagous to the other \*\* To presume you understand the perspective of another is one thing. To suggest that it is foolish to hold a perspective different to yours is another. Unless you are a minority, who because of your status saw Thurmond’s words and actions in a different light, I really don’t think it is easy for you to wrap yourself around the concept. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/202 "2003-06-29T02:55:46Z")
John Lewis–a man who truly suffered at the hands of racists during the sixties–says that he believes that Strom changed and he forgives him in death. I don’t care to second-guess Mr. Lewis. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/203 "2003-06-29T03:03:00Z")
Interesting articles in the Times: [His hometown](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/28/national/28STRO.html) [Older blacks seemingly more forgiving](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Thurmond-Blacks.html) [Formal obituary](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/27/obituaries/27STROM.html) This contains the John Lewis quote and the interesting fact that, since he came down like a ton of bricks on a lynching party, there have been no lynchings in SC since 1947. Carry on, just wanted to interject some cool facts into this hot discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/204 "2003-06-29T03:06:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by presidebt \* > \*\*My point is that no one has tried to draw any analogy between Thurmond and Hussein. You seem to think some people have. \*\* I think the analogy is implicit in the question. I don’t think you can ask a question like that without suggesting that the two individuals are similar in meaningful ways. \*\* > [@](#): > > I think the point is: What is the depth of your conviction? Is it respect for the dead, or respect for _some_ dead? \*\* Do I respect life any less because I give soldiers in wartime a pass on the “do not kill” moral imperative? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/205 "2003-06-29T03:08:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*To presume you understand the perspective of another is one thing. To suggest that it is foolish to hold a perspective different to yours is another. > > Unless you are a minority, who because of your status saw Thurmond’s words and actions in a different light, I really don’t think it is easy for you to wrap yourself around the concept. \*\* So basically, I’m not allowed to have an opinion on this matter because I’m not black and/or gay? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/206 "2003-06-29T03:21:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*So basically, I’m not allowed to have an opinion on this matter because I’m not black and/or gay? \*\* I didn’t say that at all. NOT. AT. ALL. You force your opinion as if it is the only one, and I really do not see that you understand or are willing to put yourself in the shoes of someone unlike you who might have a different perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/207 "2003-06-29T03:34:48Z")
What this thread needs is a filibuster. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/208 "2003-06-29T05:04:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*You left out “ **evil** old guy.” You act as if he were some harmless olfd man being attacked by hooligans. Strom Thurmond did his best to harm me and mine, so fuck you and your high horse. > > Learn some history, you clueless git. \*\* Evil, huh? Was he a member of the Evil Party? Did he regularly introduce legislation to give every Americans’ soul to Satan? Was he dragging people off the back of his car? Did he lure little kids to his unmarked van? Seems to me he just disagreed that the Federal Government should decide privacy rights and instead states should. Sure he was wrong, but he was still a living breathing person. No one is asking you to mourn for him, just asking you stop acting like a drunken frat boy at a football game when your team just won the big game. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/209 "2003-06-29T05:06:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*How many of the folks here complaining about the jubilant tone of those of us who’re glad that Strom’s finally gone to meet his maker will be saying the same kinds of things if Osama gets whacked? You _know_ there’s going to be tons of threads celebrating _that_ (if it ever happens), and I’ll wager that 99% of us Dopers are going to be screaming, “Hellfuckin’ Yeah! About goddamn time!” > > In the meantime, I’ll stop being glad about Strom’s death when he stops being dead, or my friends who’ve died from AIDS stop being dead. \*\* Please tell me which building Strom crashed a plane into. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/210 "2003-06-29T05:13:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*While I was wrong earlier in the thread in demanding the detractors create their own thread, it doesn’t make the desire any less apparent. > > gobear deserves to have his point of view.\*\* And we don’t deserve to disagree with it? Now we are being treated like second class citizens! Way to help your cause! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/211 "2003-06-29T05:18:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > Why? **The man was an unrepentant hater his entire life** ; am I supposed to weep tears for a man who ran on “keep the blacks subjugated” platfrom in 1948? A man who supported every cause that I detest? > > \*\*I will not shed hypocritical, crocodile tears for a man I despised. \*\* Now **THAT** is ironic. Or is it hypocritical? I forget… Maybe it’s ironic that you sound like such a hypocrite while you say you won’t be hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/212 "2003-06-29T05:18:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > Well, there is something to that, of course, but I grow tired of the idea that the burden of respect is on us and not him. > What would prefer, silence? That his legacy of hate not be mentioned? That we maintain a quiet respect for a dead man and gloss over his entire career as a hatemonger? > > I had no respect for him when he was alive, and I don’t see why that should change now that he has died. \*\* Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You are attacking a dead man. Be prepared to get it back. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/213 "2003-06-29T05:26:26Z")
> [@](#): > > You are attacking a dead man. Be prepared to get it back. Not likely. **[Zombie Strom only reacts to the sound of Trent Lott’s voice.](http://www.democraticunderground.com/forum_archive_html/DCForumID35/1189.html)** ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/214 "2003-06-29T05:28:18Z")
Fuck you, \*\*JD[/] and **Tars Tarkas**. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Why is it you only say it to people who are angry because they have been discriminated against? Why did you never bother to say it to the person doing the discriminating? Why do you tell the people on the recieving end of bigotry to shut up and take it, yet you show no regret for the views Strom held? So you have a bad opinion of me? Right back at you. **Tars** , don’t ever pretend you are against bigotry ever again on this board because you have shown that to be an utter lie. I already know where **JD** stands. OTOH, if John Lewis is ready to forgive Strom, then I will, too. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/215 "2003-06-29T05:32:43Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > Originally posted by gobear > As many as you please. The man is a murderer, no matter how gay-friendly he might be. > > * * * > > Cite? Look up Chappaquidduck and Mary Jo Kopechne. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/216 "2003-06-29T05:33:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Fuck you, **JD** That’s a generous offer, but I don’t think i’m your type! ROFL! > [@](#): > > **Why do you tell the people on the recieving end of bigotry to shut up and take it, yet you show no regret for the views Strom held?** Why should I regret what somebody else did or thought? P.S. You don’t win any converts to your point of view by acting like a spoiled child. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/217 "2003-06-29T05:36:37Z")
> [@](#): > > P.S. You don’t win any converts to your point of view by acting like a spoiled child. How is anger at historic and continuing dicrimination acting like a spoiled child? I know you’d like to see gay people shut up and disappear back into the closet, but it’s not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/218 "2003-06-29T05:46:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Fuck you, \*\*JD[/] and **Tars Tarkas**. > > “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” > > Why is it you only say it to people who are angry because they have been discriminated against? Why did you never bother to say it to the person doing the discriminating? Why do you tell the people on the recieving end of bigotry to shut up and take it, yet you show no regret for the views Strom held? > > So you have a bad opinion of me? Right back at you. **Tars** , don’t ever pretend you are against bigotry ever again on this board because you have shown that to be an utter lie. I already know where **JD** stands. > > OTOH, if John Lewis is ready to forgive Strom, then I will, too. \*\* Because, Fucko, your trying to be the morally superior one and are resorting to the same dispicable tactics. You sink to the same level just to be covered in the same crap. And you are too blind with rage to see it. If you want to cite where i’m pro-bigatry go right ahead, but you will find nothing and are just blindly attacking anything that moves. Name one thing i’ve done anti-gay. I live in San Francisco, for God’s sake! I guess not wanting people to dance on people’s graves makes me a bigot. Well, then I’M A BIGOT FOR NOT WANTING GRAVE DANCING Those poor grave dancers, why did i put them in camps… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/219 "2003-06-29T05:55:29Z")
[quote] You just don’t fucking get it, do you? There is no burden of respect. What the fuck does “burden of respect” mean anyway. [quote] No, **you** dont get it. You are drawing moral equivalency between bigots and their victims. By your standard, bigots will always win because if the victims of bigotry react, you say they are as bad as the bigot, effectively telling them to shut up and take it. > [@](#): > > If you’re a hateful shitbag, then you’re a hateful shitbag. It doesn’t matter whether you hate gays or Strom Thurmond, and just hating “bad people” isn’t a fucking excuse, because it has nothing to do with the target of hatred. Where were your lectures when the Iraqis wwre cheering Saddam’s downfall? Or is that you havce an approved list of bullies and tyrants who deserve censure and those who do not? “Evil Iraqi dictator who killed tens of thousands, cheering his downfall is OK.” “Evil American legislator who voted to keep blacks and gays second-class citizens, must be mourned.” > [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## When you are arrested in yoru home for having sex with a consenting female of legal age, then you might know what I’m talking about. Until then fuck off > > Did this happen to you? If not, shouldn’t you fuck off as well? Look up the facts in the case of _Lawrence v. Texas_. A cop went into a bedroom and arrested two men having sex. I grow weary of being lectured by people who don’t have the first clue of what they’re talking about. > [@](#): > > I’M A BIGOT FOR NOT WANTING GRAVE DANCING No, you’re a bigot because you don’t care why we’re not sad. You’re a bigot because two pages back you said we don’t deserve rights if we act in a way that displeases you, as if our rights are yours to grant or take away. You’re a bigot because you prefer respect for a dead hophobe than a little space for living people to get some anger out of their systems. But you’ve never been angry, have you? And you have always turned the other cheek when you’ve been wronged? And of course living in San Francisco means you cannot possibly be bigoted in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/220 "2003-06-29T06:00:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Now THAT is ironic. Or is it hypocritical? I forget… > > Maybe it’s ironic that you sound like such a hypocrite while you say you won’t be hypocritical. There’s a subtle difference between hating someone for **things they have DONE** and hating someone for **what they ARE** Well, maybe not so subtle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696.md?page=12)