# Sodomy is constitutional - AND STROM THURMOND DIES!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696 "2003-06-27T03:50:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/41 "2003-06-27T14:07:40Z")
I like the way everyone here acts as though Thurmond’s positions haven’t changed since 1958, the year of his infamous filibuster. Since that time, he became the first southern senator to put blacks on his staff, endorsed numerous black South Carolinians for political office, backed the nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court, and regularly won the support of a sizeable chunk of South Carolina’s black community. Forgiveness is evidently a virtue in short supply around here. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/42 "2003-06-27T14:08:30Z")
[hijack] Hey, **Muad’Dib** , you’re not perchance the British comic who had a routine mocking Alanis Morrissette’s song _Ironic_, are you? 😃 > [@](#): > > “A traffic jam when you’re already late?” _That’s_ not ironic! That’s just a pain in the ass! … Now, if what you’re late for is a meeting of the traffic planning commission, _that_ would be ironic! [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/43 "2003-06-27T14:15:23Z")
Nitpick: Ed Byrne is Irish 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ShoNuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@ShoNuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShoNuff)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/44 "2003-06-27T14:18:27Z")
Wow. Never thought I’d be defending Strom Thurmond. Now THAT’s irony. > [@](#): > > _From gobear_ > \*\*Oh, do you mean that you are miffed that some people are treating his death with levity? Why? The man was an unrepentant hater his entire life; am I supposed to weep tears for a man who ran on “keep the blacks subjugated” platfrom in 1948? A man who supported every cause that I detest? > > I will not shed hypocritical, crocodile tears for a man I despised.\*\* He was also the first Senator to hire an African-American aide, in 1970, and supported the creation of a holiday for Martin Luther King. Sure, he’s supported horrible positions in the past, but his positions also changed, albeit grudgingly, with the times. I’m not saying we should all be crying our eyes out, far from it. I just think it’s terribly compassionless to dance on his grave. The Civil Rights and Gay Rights movements are about the equal value and dignity of all people. To support these movements, and then gleefully celebrate the death of a man who supported terrible positions yet changed over the years, is hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/45 "2003-06-27T14:34:38Z")
> [@](#): > > The man was an unrepentant hater his entire life. Negative. Don’t be ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/46 "2003-06-27T14:37:05Z")
In 1996 he voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. [http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Strom\_Thurmond\_Civil\_Rights.htm#1996-281](http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Strom_Thurmond_Civil_Rights.htm#1996-281) In 2000 he voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. [http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Strom\_Thurmond\_Civil\_Rights.htm#2000-136](http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Strom_Thurmond_Civil_Rights.htm#2000-136) With respect to his anti-gay position, he never repented. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/47 "2003-06-27T14:40:47Z")
Well, if he supported Clarence Thomas’s nomination, that settles it. I am now dancing unrepentantly on his grave. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/48 "2003-06-27T14:48:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Please show where any black or gay people supported legislation to treat him as a second-class citizen? > > Oh, do you mean that you are miffed that some people are treating his death with levity? Why? The man was an unrepentant hater his entire life; am I supposed to weep tears for a man who ran on “keep the blacks subjugated” platfrom in 1948? A man who supported every cause that I detest? > > I will not shed hypocritical, crocodile tears for a man I despised. \*\* Please show me where I asked you to rend your garments and gnash your teeth over his death. I was raised to believe that laughing and rejoicing over a man’s death is an un-classy thing to do, even if the man was guilty of bad things himself, YMMV. Therefore, in my opinion, Thurmond was wrong, and people who are kicking up their heels are also wrong. Got it? No, none of the revelers supported legislation to make Strom Thurmond a second-class citized. Good for them. They also didn’t storm any French beaches in 1994 to liberate anyone from the Nazis. You know what, what the hell am I doing, I didn’t even like the guy. Laugh it up, celebrate yourselves silly, I don’t give a rat’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/49 "2003-06-27T14:48:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ShoNuff \* > He was also the first Senator to hire an African-American aide, in 1970 Er, he was the first (Post-Reconstruction) Senator **from the South** to hire an African-American aide, not the first Senator. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/50 "2003-06-27T14:49:29Z")
And obviously I meant 1944, not 1994. ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/51 "2003-06-27T14:56:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*I dunno: you people are being awful glib about the death of man who, though having a checkered past of bigotry, changed a lot over the years: even [rethinking his position on sodomy near the end of his life](http://www.theonion.com/onion3112/stromchange.html). \*\* Boo-freaking-hoo ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/52 "2003-06-27T15:00:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > \*\*In 1996 he voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. > [http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Strom\_Thurmond\_Civil\_Rights.htm#1996-281](http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Strom_Thurmond_Civil_Rights.htm#1996-281) > > In 2000 he voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. > [http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Strom\_Thurmond\_Civil\_Rights.htm#2000-136](http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Strom_Thurmond_Civil_Rights.htm#2000-136) > > With respect to his anti-gay position, he never repented. Ever. \*\* '96 vote, he voted “nay” along with 49 other “homophobes”? Abraham (R-MI) Ashcroft (R-MO) Bennett (R-UT) Bond (R-MO) Brown (R-CO) Burns (R-MT) Byrd (D-WV) Campbell (R-CO) Coats (R-IN) Cochran (R-MS) Coverdell (R-GA) Craig (R-ID) DeWine (R-OH) Domenici (R-NM) Exon (D-NE) Faircloth (R-NC) Ford (D-KY) Frahm (R-KS) Frist (R-TN) Gorton (R-WA) Gramm (R-TX) Grams (R-MN) Grassley (R-IA) Gregg (R-NH) Hatch (R-UT) Heflin (D-AL) Helms (R-NC) Hutchison (R-TX) Inhofe (R-OK) Kassebaum (R-KS) Kempthorne (R-ID) Kyl (R-AZ) Lott (R-MS) Lugar (R-IN) Mack (R-FL) McCain (R-AZ) McConnell (R-KY) Murkowski (R-AK) Nickles (R-OK) Nunn (D-GA) Pressler (R-SD) Roth (R-DE) Santorum (R-PA) Shelby (R-AL) Smith (R-NH) Stevens (R-AK) Thomas (R-WY) Thompson (R-TN) Thurmond (R-SC) Warner (R-VA) The links about the second vote don’t work (obviously not your fault!) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/53 "2003-06-27T15:08:36Z")
Strom was apparently very personable, a product of his time and place, who did revisit his own bigotry (with mixed success). However, changing a mind that has had an opinion for nearly a zillion years does not happen overnight. He was apparently very loyal to his consituency - even his AA consituency (if patronizing in his loyalty). All that, but I still have to say “Do you think he died just so he could spin in his grave?” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/54 "2003-06-27T16:09:43Z")
Didn’t he also campaign in favor of a MLKJr holiday? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/55 "2003-06-27T16:14:52Z")
I thought it was just the opposite, that he didn’t want his state to observe the holiday or for the state flags to fly at half mast. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/56 "2003-06-27T16:29:06Z")
[http://slate.msn.com/id/2075662/](http://slate.msn.com/id/2075662/) > [@](#): > > Contrast that with an interview Thurmond gave Joseph Stroud of the Charlotte Observer in July 1998 to commemorate the 50th anniversary of his presidential bid on the segregationist Dixiecrat ticket. Asked if he wanted to apologize, Thurmond said, “I don’t have anything to apologize for,” and “I don’t have any regrets.” Asked if he thought the Dixiecrats were right, Thurmond said, “Yes, I do.” Thurmond said this four years ago! To those of you who said he regretted his past. He seemed quite proud of it. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/57 "2003-06-27T16:33:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Strom Thurmond the Republican was the first South Carolina politician to hire a black aide, voted for the 1982 extension of the Voting Rights Act and supported the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday. from: [http://www.browndailyherald.com/stories.asp?storyID=626](http://www.browndailyherald.com/stories.asp?storyID=626) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/58 "2003-06-27T16:45:20Z")
For the Thurmond apologists, I offer [this](http://slate.msn.com/id/2075453/) from Slate, written last December. It does a pretty good job of debunking the myth of Strom the Repentant Racist. And of course he never felt the need even to pretend to reform his fucked up actions regarding the rights of gay people. When he and Helms retired earlier this year, I read a quote from a former staffer of one of them to the effect of don’t rejoice that they’re gone because they’re not. Generations have gone from their offices into positions of power and authority and their influence will be felt for decades to come. The thought of it chilled me to the bone. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/59 "2003-06-27T16:49:13Z")
My Slate link is the same article which is linked to in the first sentence of the article in Sterra’s link. ---
**Author:** ![ShoNuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@ShoNuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShoNuff)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/60 "2003-06-27T16:53:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by SuaSponte_ > **Er, he was the first (Post-Reconstruction) Senator from the South to hire an African-American aide, not the first Senator.** _“In the 1970s, he became the first Southern senator to hire a black staff aide and to sponsor a black man for a federal judgeship.”_ [Cite - The Slate](http://slate.msn.com/id/2075453/) Looks like you’re right, **SuaSponte**. I was going off a report from our local CLear Channel affiliate. Should have known better. But let’s not confuse the issue here. I’m not defending Thurmond’s stances in the slightest. Indeed, I find him and what he symbolizes to be absolutely reprehensible. I’m not objecting to people vilifying him. I’m objecting to the giddy reaction some dopers have had to his death. While I revile the stances he took during times of his career, and some that he continued to hold, it’s reprehensible to dance on his grave. IMO [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696.md?page=4)