# Sodomy is constitutional - AND STROM THURMOND DIES!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696 "2003-06-27T03:50:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/61 "2003-06-27T17:44:20Z")
I didn’t care for the man but at least i don’t have the poor taste to relish his death ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/62 "2003-06-27T17:52:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bruce\_Daddy \* > \*\*'96 vote, he voted “nay” along with 49 other “homophobes”? > > Abraham (R-MI) > Ashcroft (R-MO) > Bennett (R-UT) > Bond (R-MO) > Brown (R-CO) > Burns (R-MT) > Byrd (D-WV) > Campbell (R-CO) > Coats (R-IN) > Cochran (R-MS) > Coverdell (R-GA) > Craig (R-ID) > DeWine (R-OH) > Domenici (R-NM) > Exon (D-NE) > Faircloth (R-NC) > Ford (D-KY) > Frahm (R-KS) > Frist (R-TN) > Gorton (R-WA) > Gramm (R-TX) > Grams (R-MN) > Grassley (R-IA) > Gregg (R-NH) > Hatch (R-UT) > Heflin (D-AL) > Helms (R-NC) > Hutchison (R-TX) > Inhofe (R-OK) > Kassebaum (R-KS) > Kempthorne (R-ID) > Kyl (R-AZ) > Lott (R-MS) > Lugar (R-IN) > Mack (R-FL) > McCain (R-AZ) > McConnell (R-KY) > Murkowski (R-AK) > Nickles (R-OK) > Nunn (D-GA) > Pressler (R-SD) > Roth (R-DE) > Santorum (R-PA) > Shelby (R-AL) > Smith (R-NH) > Stevens (R-AK) > Thomas (R-WY) > Thompson (R-TN) > Thurmond (R-SC) > Warner (R-VA) > > The links about the second vote don’t work (obviously not your fault!) \*\* A good example of the magnitude of the problem, and an indication of which party is more likely to oppose basic gay rights. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/63 "2003-06-27T18:27:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*I didn’t care for the man but at least i don’t have the poor taste to relish his death \*\* I don’t relish it. I never have relish on my hot dog. Hot sauce and mustard for me, e.e. cummings. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/64 "2003-06-27T18:31:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Didn’t he also campaign in favor of a MLKJr holiday? \*\* And right after that, he campaigned for a Harvey Milk day. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/65 "2003-06-27T18:31:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I didn’t care for the man but at least I don’t have the poor taste to relish his death. This is exactly how I feel. Respect for the dead was something I also was taught is supposed to be part of basic decency. Especially the recently deceased. Hate the man, hate his actions while he was alive, but to relish in the death of any living being is disgusting to me. Even in war. While some opponents have obviously needed killing, I take no joy or satisfaction in the fact they had to be killed. I can understand that it needed to be done, but I think a somber attitude is appropriate before, during, and after. Simlarly, while I abhor those who would defend racism and/or hatred, I take no joy in their deaths, even if I shed no tears. DaLovin’ Dj DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/66 "2003-06-27T18:31:56Z")
Personally, I think nothing Thurmond did deserves the snide comments and jokes about his death. He was no horrible dictator or even an evil man. Mistaken, bigoted, misguided, out of touch? Perhaps. But none of that justifies mocking his passing. Every halfway decent human being, no matter how flawed, at least deserves a small amount of respect when they die. Thurmond was no Hitler in mindset or action, no Phelps either. If you cannot show him respect in words, then at least respect him by saying nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Lucki\_Chaarms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lucki\_Chaarms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucki_Chaarms)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/67 "2003-06-27T18:46:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Linear Crack \* > \*\*LC \*\* Uh oh… I started reading and I had a serious moment of confusion there. “I so have not posted here yet! Ohhhh…” **Priam** - I disagree with your over-generous assesment of Thurmond’s life. Never did anything evil? Really? He didn’t say, run for the presidency on the platform of people in the South having the RIGHT to lynch black people and go unpunished? That said, I’m not glad that he died, and I find the cheering to be in bad taste. I was glad when he retired, and I really feel that the fact that he had a successful political career is something that his constituents should feel ashamed of. A man with views as repugnant as his should have no place in America’s politics. However, the fact that I strongly disagree with him and feel that he was a force for evil during his life doesn’t mean I wanted him to die. I just wanted his influence to go away, and when he retired that was good enough for me. LC ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/68 "2003-06-27T18:56:31Z")
Strom might have been a hateful, bigoted dinosaur who promoted too much intolerance in this world, but I won’t take any joy in his death – if only out of respect for the members of his family who will miss him. ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/69 "2003-06-27T18:59:42Z")
My point, **Lucki Chaarms** is mostly resting on what you agree with. As for my being over-generous in my assessment of Thurmond, I am very hesitant to call a person evil if I don’t know them. While he, in the past, straddled that internal line I’ve set up, he never clearly crossed it. Call it over-generous, call it too forgiving, but I’d rather err on the generous side than the harsh side. “He who is without sin, cast the first stone” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/70 "2003-06-27T19:08:19Z")
Equating these things, and demeaning the man is direspectful and in bad taste. Count me in with those who express disgust at these sentiments, and a loss of respect for those that make them. As for the ruling: I told you so. I’m on record in a thread pertaining to the two Texas men about how this was likely to put the nail to these stupid laws. While I am glad that the law has been changed, I am very unhappy and feel that they are wrong about the way they have done it. IANA lawyer, but it appears to me the rationale used was basically a “right to privacy,” combined with unenforceability. These are poor arguments to me, and may have unintended consequences in other areas to my admittedly unlegally trained mind. As far as I can tell, there is no Constitutional right to privacy. I don’t think that because something happens behind closed doors in somebody’s home it is somehow no longer the concern of society. I respect privacy, but I don’t beleive it’s a constitutionally protected right. I worry that this decision may be used to defend severe and onerous extralegal activity under the grounds that occurs in a setting protected by “the right to privacy.” Similarly, unenforceability is a poor argument as well. We shouldn’t make something legal because it’s tough to stop. Homosexual activity should not be allowed to be criminal for the exact same reason that putting your left shoe on before your right shoe should not be allowed to be declared illegal. It boils down to freedom. It seems to me that what the Supreme court has said amounts to: “We can’t stop you from doing these icky reprehensible things behind closed doors, and your right to privacy prevents us from trying, so you might as well do what your going to do.” What it should have said is: “As free citizens making choices, no State should be allowed to pass laws restricting your inalienable personal freedoms.” An old man died, and a good law got passed for bad reasons that really don’t protect your rights as equal citizens, and may in fact set bad precedents far down the line. That doesn’t make it a good day, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/71 "2003-06-27T19:10:51Z")
To the lot of you who are coming in here to be critical of we who would celebrate Thurmond’s death: **Create your own fucking thread.** To claim that Thurmond wasn’t a bigot because he adapted to black people having civil rights, even though he was an unrepentant homophobe is bizarre to say the least. To say that his passing should not be celebrated by a segment of the population he worked on keeping down is arrogant and self-righteous. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/72 "2003-06-27T19:34:11Z")
> [@](#): > > By taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing over it, he is superior. ~ **Francis Bacon** Just because the man was morally reprehensible does not justify other morally reprehensible acts (like celebrating someone’s death). > [@](#): > > To the lot of you who are coming in here to be critical of we who would celebrate Thurmond’s death: > > Create your own fucking thread. For crying out loud, how many fucking times? One has the right to post what one feels in a public forum, but one should not be surprised when others comment on those posts in the self-same forum. Since when are Pit threads a place for everybody to agree? Since never. Yet somehow, someone always stupidly suggests that dissenting viewpoints have no place. Seriously, I wouldn’t have thought that the basic facets of how a public message board operates would be so difficult to grasp for so many people. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/73 "2003-06-27T19:39:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\*Just because the man was morally reprehensible does not justify other morally reprehensible acts (like celebrating someone’s death). For crying out loud, how many fucking times? One has the right to post what one feels in a public forum, but one should not be surprised when others comment on those posts in the self-same forum. Since when are Pit threads a place for everybody to agree? Since never. Yet somehow, someone always stupidly suggests that dissenting viewpoints have no place. Seriously, I wouldn’t have thought that the basic facets of how a public message board operates would be so difficult to grasp for so many people. > > DaLovin’ Dj \*\* I’m celebrating his passing and so are others. If you have a problem with it, start your own fucking thread to bitch about it. Dissenting views do have a place, you imbecile. In ANOTHER thread. It has already been said here ad infinitum. I think what is hard to grasp for you is that your opinion, while shared by others, is the minority here. Drag yourself and the cross you’ve nailed yourself to across the forum to start your own damn thread. ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/74 "2003-06-27T19:42:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\*Respect for the dead was something I also was taught is supposed to be part of basic decency. > DaLovin’ Dj > > DaLovin’ Dj \*\* I think respect for the living – and for other races – is far more important. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/75 "2003-06-27T19:44:23Z")
> [@](#): > > It seems to me that what the Supreme court has said amounts to: > > “We can’t stop you from doing these icky reprehensible things behind closed doors, and your right to privacy prevents us from trying, so you might as well do what your going to do.” I don’t know where you get your reading from **Syclla**. But I read the opinion as saying that Liberty (another word for freedom) is accorded to us also. > [@](#): > > Liberty protects the person from unwarranted govern- > ment intrusions into a dwelling or other private places. In > our tradition the State is not omnipresent in the home. > And there are other spheres of our lives and existence, > outside the home, where the State should not be a domi- > nant presence. Freedom extends beyond spatial bounds. > Liberty presumes an autonomy of self that includes free- > dom of thought, belief, expression, and certain intimate > conduct. The instant case involves liberty of the person > both in its spatial and more transcendent dimensions. > > [snip] > > The liberty protected by the Constitution allows homosex- > ual persons the right to make this choice. > > [snip] > > Their right to liberty under the > Due Process Clause gives them the full right to engage in > their conduct without intervention of the government. “It > is a promise of the Constitution that there is a realm of > personal liberty which the government may not enter” > _Casey, supra, at 847_. The Texas statute furthers no le- > gitimate state interest which can justify its intrusion into > the personal and private life of the individual. Justice Kennedy specifically states that one of the reasons that the law was overturned is the implied condemnation in making sodomy illegal. The question wasn’t, he said, whether adults have the right to commit sodomy _per se_; but whether as free adults we have liberty to make our own choices. I’m happy that the Court decided we do have Liberty. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/76 "2003-06-27T19:45:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\ ***Create your own fucking thread.** > \*\* No. You’re just as bad and deserve to be told so. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/77 "2003-06-27T19:45:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*I’m celebrating his passing and so are others. > > If you have a problem with it, start your own fucking thread to bitch about it.\*\* When you are the moderator of this board, or I am posting on _your_ message board I will happily comply. Seeing as you’re neither, my answer to you is “No. I will respond here.” ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/78 "2003-06-27T19:46:59Z")
actually, you’re worse, since your target can no longer defend himself. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/79 "2003-06-27T19:47:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*If you have a problem with it, start your own fucking thread to bitch about it. > > Dissenting views do have a place, you imbecile. In ANOTHER thread. > \*\* Wrong. If you want to have a Pit thread with no dissenting opinions, start your own fucking message board. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/80 "2003-06-27T19:48:08Z")
No, I think I’ll just keep my comments in this thread being as they are on topic (considering they concern statements made in this thread). Cross? I’m not victimized and never claimed to be. I’m simply disgusted. I also couldn’t care less what percentage of posters agree with me. By that logic if the majority of people feel that killing all (insert race or religion) type of people then it should be above persecution or comment. You sure are coming across as a foolish simpleton. This thread is owned by no one except the Chicago Reader and your attempts to influence the content and location of post to this thread are doomed to failure. But enjoy being pissy. It looks cute on you. DaLovin’ Dj [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696.md?page=5)