# Sodomy is constitutional - AND STROM THURMOND DIES!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696 "2003-06-27T03:50:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/161 "2003-06-28T13:56:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* But does his humanity absolve him of his reprehensible attitudes? No. > [@](#): > > On an unrelated, but quite personal, note, how about child abusers? My mother’s second husband beat the living shit out of me from the time I was 5 until she finally divorced him when I was 13. He’s old and sick now, and he’ll die eventually. When that time comes, I am going to celebrate and might even go to Kentucky just to piss on his grave. > > Do his humanity trump his crimes also? \*\* No. It doesn’t trump his crimes. But, that humanity is still there. He is still more than his crimes against you. Your sentiments in this reflect on you, not those who’s grave you dance on. > [@](#): > > Scylla seems to think that we must weep for those who hurt us, and i want to know how far that goes. No. I don’t think that. Just because I’m against one attitude doesn’t mean I’m for it’s opposite. Why should you mourn a man or men for which you have such a deep and abiding emnity? Where did I say you should? Bottom line is that a controversial human being has died. Like you, doubtless, he had good and bad in him. To celebrate his passing in such a fashion reflects on you, and you alone. It demeans you and your humanity. > [@](#): > > Moreover, Strom was a loyal Pubbie, so of course Scylla demands respect for him. Yeah, that’s it. > [@](#): > > But if Hillary Clinton were to die, what would his reaction be? I’d be right here saying the exact same thing except not as gently to the assholes dancing on her grave, and I’d be especially pissed because as a Republican and no fan of Hillary their actions might be construed by some to reflect on me. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/162 "2003-06-28T14:00:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*It seems to me that every person castigating me and the other gay Dopers who are being irreverent askes us to see thing s from Strom’s POV, but not one of you has bothered to see things from our perspective. \*\* That is, to put it mildly, absurd. Indeed, there is widespread agreement by everyone here that Thurmond’s views on homosexuality and race were unequivocally _wrong_. And to the extent it’s possible to see the world through another’s eyes, I think we pretty much understand why a gay person would feel a stronger emotional response to Thurmond’s death. No one’s suggested that you look at the world from Thurmond’s POV – no one’s suggested, for example, that you consider segregation to be acceptable, or gays unworthy of equal protection under the law. They’ve simply suggested that basic humanity dictates showing a modicum of magnamity upon the passing of a fellow human being. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/163 "2003-06-28T14:02:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*And why do you demand respect and mourning for evil men who did their best to keep down blacks and gays during their political careers? IMO, your brand of solemn hypocrisy is far sicker than myhonest relief at the absence of an oppressor. \*\* You must think quite alot of yourself to imagine that you are “oppressed” by “evil men”. You are surely overstating your true position there by a mile. You’re not the fucking French proletariat getting run over by aristocrats’ carriages. You’re not a worker in a fucking gulag who got shipped to Siberia because some KGB dickface heard you question the Communist leadership. You’re not some shopkeeper in Phnom Penh who was looted and murdered when the Khmer Rouge swept into town. You aren’t hiding in a cellar holding your breath so the Schutzpolizei can’t hear you. Mao Tse-Tung didn’t murder your family as part of his Cultural Revolution. You weren’t run over by a tank in Tiennamen Square. Pancho Villa didn’t ride into town with his bandits and rape your women. You aren’t bones in some Iraqi pit. Torquemada does not have you on the rack for spouting heresy. You’re not one of the whores drug out of their homes and forced to service Genghis Khan’s army. You weren’t forced off your land and marched halfway across a continent to live on a strip of desert in Oklahoma while you watched half your family die of dyssentery. Your 10 year old child hasn’t been drafted into some African warlord’s army, given a broken rifle and sent to the front to die in some pointless tribal war. You want to start talking about “evil men” and “oppressors”, we can start there. Don’t fucking give me Strom Thurmond. Get the fuck over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/164 "2003-06-28T14:05:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > It seems to me that every person castigating me and the other gay Dopers who are being irreverent askes us to see thing s from Strom’s POV, but not one of you has bothered to see things from our perspective. \*\* Not me. I don’t ask you to see anything from Strom’s POV. Why the fuck should you? > [@](#): > > \*\*I wil not participate in hypocrisy by playing the _nil nisi bonum_ nonsense. You can all weep for him and mourn his loss, I will not. \*\* Cut the hyperbole please. I’m not mourning. Nobody else here is mourning. Nobody here is demanding theat you mour, weep, shed a tear or anything like that. Your assertions to the contrary are false and dodging the issue. This is not about Strom. It’s about you. Your taking public pleasure in his death reflects badly on you. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/165 "2003-06-28T14:06:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > It seems to me that every person castigating me and the other gay Dopers who are being irreverent Hey it’s not just gays who are being irreverent about the old bollocks 😉 I thought he was a wanker before he died and I still hold that opinion. I have no respect for the guy. I have read about his history. Respect is earned not just granted because you stop breathing. Strom’s not breathing anymore. Boohoo. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/166 "2003-06-28T14:45:23Z")
Rex, you might wish to look a bit deeper into the difference between a motion for summary judgment at circuit court, which for the most part is sandbox law, and an appeal to the highest court in the land on a matter with broad social, political and legal ramifications. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/167 "2003-06-28T14:45:39Z")
Fuck off, **RexDart**. It took a Supreme court decision to give me that same privacy in my home that you enjoy as a matter of course. When you are arrested in yoru home for having sex with a consenting female of legal age, then you might know what I’m talking about. Until then fuck off. As long as I am treated as a lesser citizen because of who I am, I’m going to speak up. Of course, with this latest SC decision, mybe the day will come when that wil no longer be necessary. **Dewey** That is, to put it mildly, absurd. Indeed, there is widespread agreement by everyone here that Thurmond’s views on homosexuality and race were unequivocally wrong. [/quote] No, there has been widespread agreement that Thurmond’s views on homosexuality and race should be ignored. [quote] And to the extent it’s possible to see the world through another’s eyes, I think we pretty much understand why a gay person would feel a stronger emotional response to Thurmond’s death. [quote] You’re the first person to say so. > [@](#): > > They’ve simply suggested that basic humanity dictates showing a modicum of magnamity upon the passing of a fellow human being. Well, there is something to that, of course, but I grow tired of the idea that the burden of respect is on us and not him. What would prefer, silence? That his legacy of hate not be mentioned? That we maintain a quiet respect for a dead man and gloss over his entire career as a hatemonger? I had no respect for him when he was alive, and I don’t see why that should change now that he has died. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/168 "2003-06-28T14:53:47Z")
> [@](#): > > This is not about Strom. It’s about you. Your taking public pleasure in his death reflects badly on you. Well, it’s not like I’m jerking off to his obituary. I simply see no reason to pull a long face and speak of “dignity” and “humanity” when refering to a man who believed that I had neither. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/169 "2003-06-28T15:21:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*No, there has been widespread agreement that Thurmond’s views on homosexuality and race should be ignored. > > […] > > Well, there is something to that, of course, but I grow tired of the idea that the burden of respect is on us and not him. > What would prefer, silence? That his legacy of hate not be mentioned? \*\* Then you simply aren’t paying attention. Every single news article, retrospective, obituary, etc, etc, etc, that I’ve seen to date spent considerable time noting Thurmond’s ignomious role in American race relations and his overall social conservatism. No one’s “ignoring” anything. You can note and sternly disapprove of the deceased’s political and social views without dancing on the man’s grave. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/170 "2003-06-28T15:48:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **Well, there is something to that, of course, but I grow tired of the idea that the burden of respect is on us and not him.** But see, that’s just it. Aren’t you supposed to be _better_ than him? If not, then how are you justified in hating him? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/171 "2003-06-28T15:55:45Z")
Right wing fucking assholes. You’d cream your jeans if GWB announced that Saddam had been successfully assassinated. But some bigoted Republican fuckknuckle dies, and the chorus cries: “Let’s not speak ill of the dead”. You dickheads. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/172 "2003-06-28T16:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > **You’d cream your jeans if GWB announced that Saddam had been successfully assassinated.** If you seriously think that Thurmond is anywhere near Hussein on the scale of evil, you seriously need to learn some perspective. Hell, why don’t you just compare Thurmond to Hitler, Republicans to Nazis, and we can just Godwinize this thread into oblivion? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/173 "2003-06-28T16:20:49Z")
So where’s the cutoff on it being OK to be glad that some nasty old bastard is dead ? Thurmond’s comic timing on this was about as good as it gets ! ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/174 "2003-06-28T16:23:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*As many as you please. The man is a murderer, no matter how gay-friendly he might be. > \*\* Cite? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > Fuck off, RexDart. It took a Supreme court decision to give me that same privacy in my home that you enjoy as a matter of course. When you are arrested in yoru home for having sex with a consenting female of legal age, then you might know what I’m talking about. Until then fuck off. As long as I am treated as a lesser citizen because of who I am, I’m going to speak up. Of course, with this latest SC decision, mybe the day will come when that wil no longer be necessary. > \*\* A lot of the states had sodomy laws that are used to prosecute both heterosexual and homosexual acts. I wasn’t aware that you had been arrested in your home and am sorry to hear that. No one’s got problems with your “speaking out”, but outside of murders and baby rapists, funeral celebrations are pretty crass things. And ditto for everything that Guin said in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/175 "2003-06-28T16:25:22Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow_ > \*\*If you seriously think that Thurmond is anywhere near Hussein on the scale of evil, you seriously need to learn some perspective. > \*\* I suggested no such thing. I proposed a hypothetical response on the part of right wing assholes. What happened to this: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow_ > **They’ve simply suggested that basic humanity dictates showing a modicum of magnamity upon the passing of a fellow human being.** What yould your response be if GWB announced the successful assassination of Saddam? “Saddam was a fellow human being, and we shouldn’t take joy at his passing.”? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/176 "2003-06-28T16:55:34Z")
I am not a Christian. I therefore have no obligation whatsoever to love all of humanity as if they were my siblings. So I feel no guilt at all when I enjoy a small twinge of happiness and joy that the Honorable Wrinkled Old Ballsac from South Carolina has finally shuffled off this mortal coil. Now to wait for his colleague from North Carolina to follow. And I don’t apologize for that, either. Personally, I think that Thurmond really did have a change of heart near the end. After all, he died during Pride month, obviously as a gift for all of us homos! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/177 "2003-06-28T17:03:16Z")
gobear: > [@](#): > > Fuck off, RexDart. It took a Supreme court decision to give me that same privacy in my home that you enjoy as a matter of course. That’s not what the decision did. > [@](#): > > When you are arrested in yoru home for having sex with a consenting female of legal age, then you might know what I’m talking about. Until then fuck off Did this happen to you? If not, shouldn’t you fuck off as well? > [@](#): > > Well, there is something to that, of course, but I grow tired of the idea that the burden of respect is on us and not him. You just don’t fucking get it, do you? There is no burden of respect. What the fuck does “burden of respect” mean anyway. If you’re a hateful shitbag, then you’re a hateful shitbag. It doesn’t matter whether you hate gays or Strom Thurmond, and just hating “bad people” isn’t a fucking excuse, because it has nothing to do with the target of hatred. Taking pleasure in the misfortune of others makes you vile. It doesn’t matter who they are. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/178 "2003-06-28T17:07:51Z")
Well, unless its Carrot Top or Ann Coulter. Got to draw the line somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![presidebt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@presidebt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/presidebt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/179 "2003-06-28T17:42:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*I suggested no such thing. I proposed a hypothetical response on the part of right wing assholes. > > What happened to this:What yould your response be if GWB announced the successful assassination of Saddam? “Saddam was a fellow human being, and we shouldn’t take joy at his passing.”? \*\* Oh, but of course that’s different. It has been interesting to see the qualifiers finally start to come out on page six, eh? First it was just disrespectful to be happy about a _human_ death, but now it’s _except in cases where I believe the person is truly evil, not just semi-evil._ ---
**Author:** ![ShoNuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@ShoNuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShoNuff)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sodomy-is-constitutional-and-strom-thurmond-dies/184696/180 "2003-06-28T18:47:38Z")
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