# Sofa King - ever get your Sealand ID papers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 7, 2000, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700 "2000-06-07T23:19:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2000, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/1 "2000-06-07T23:19:58Z")
Sofa King, I remember you mentioning in a previous thread (that I’m too lazy to look up) that you were thinking of applying for Sealand citizenship. Were you serious? You might be interested in reading this article in the 7 June 2000 edition of the Los Angeles Times (links are only valid for a few weeks) [A Nation for Friend and Faux](http://www.latimes.com/print/20000607/t000053939.html) The gist of the article is that the Internet presence of Sealand (selling passports, etc…) was a fraud done without the consent of the “real” Sealand. > [@](#): > > the Principality of Sealand was hijacked on the Internet by an alleged international fraud ring with interests in weapons trading, drug smuggling and money laundering. > > The rival Sealanders, based in Germany and Spain, sold their own passports, designed uniforms for a phantom army and printed labels for a Sealand-brand whiskey before police raided their “embassy” in Madrid this spring and detained their Spanish “regent.” His self-styled government and diplomatic corps are under criminal investigation. According to the LA Times article, this is the **unapproved** site: [http://www.principality-sealand.net/en30.htm](http://www.principality-sealand.net/en30.htm) This is the **official** site: [http://www.fruitsofthesea.demon.co.uk/sealand](http://www.fruitsofthesea.demon.co.uk/sealand) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2000, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/2 "2000-06-09T19:07:35Z")
OK, Sofa King seems to be MIA, so has anyone else gotten Sealand ID papers? Guess not. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2000, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/3 "2000-06-09T19:25:33Z")
My God! I’ve been duped! The “impersonating” site was indeed the one to which I applied. The thought of my own personal weapons trading, drug smuggling and money laundering interests being put in jeopardy by these charlatans is disconcerting, to say the least. As it happens, the faux Sealanders failed to contact me. Perhaps I will check out the “official” Sealand and see what I can get out of them… Anyway, thanks for the heads up, Arnold. SK ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2000, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/4 "2000-06-09T19:26:39Z")
The thread in question is [Ich Bin Ein Sealander](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=14763) Arnold, welcome to the SDMB, and thank you for posting your comment. Please include a link to the previous thread if it’s on the straight dope web site. To include a link, it can be as simple as including the web page location in your post (make sure there is a space before and after the text of the URL). (That was fun! 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2000, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/5 "2000-06-09T19:39:43Z")
In an unrelated thread, ZenBeam reprimanded Chronos thusly: > [@](#): > > Of course, Arnold never provides the link when someone else already has. Best to leave these things to the professionals, Chronos. There are two other threads Arnold may be referring to: [Least poor country?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=15658) and [Uninhabited countries](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=15093) ZenBeam should take his own advice. ZenBeam slinks away in shame… ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2000, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/6 "2000-06-09T20:46:06Z")
Sealand is now hosting the first completely unregulated ISP and colocation facilities at [havenco.com.](http://www.havenco.com) Though there is an [acceptable use policy](http://www.havenco.com/legal/aup.html) to keep out spammers and child pornography. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2000, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/7 "2000-06-09T20:46:45Z")
Now **that** was pretty funny! You got it right on the first time, I was talking about the thread “Ich bin ein Sealander.” Obviously, you’re moderator material! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2000, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/8 "2000-06-09T21:38:43Z")
Hmmm. Curiouser and curouser. The link that Horselover provides links to a _completely different_ Sealand page, which obviously crops a lot of its text from the pretender Sealand site. The e-mail address to contact them is not Prince Bates’ domain, either. I think someone needs to do some looking into this. Unfortunately, it likely won’t be me, because it’s **beer:30**. I’ll see what I can find out after I crawl out of the bottle. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2000, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/9 "2000-06-10T02:40:26Z")
Here’s a column by Cecil that mentions Sealand, as well as other information for you “would-be potentates”: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_300.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_300.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dystopos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@Dystopos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dystopos)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2000, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/10 "2000-06-11T16:50:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > I think someone needs to do some looking into this. > \*\* Well, here’s the result of the absolute bare minimum of ‘looking into this’ that I could use to justify a post: The “official” URL given above is a UK domain. If they had their own unregulated ISP, why would the official site be on another (regulated) one? ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2000, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/11 "2000-06-11T20:26:28Z")
Well, as I was nursing a Taster’s Choice hangover this morning (I need no more beer, up here), I noticed a copy of Wired came in. Usually, I use that magazine to hold up one end of the couch, but I thumbed through it and sure enough, they had a feature on Sealand. At first, I thought that the author was a hack, because most of the background and quotes from Roy Bates were taken from other sources. But it turns out the guy actually _visited_ Sealand in the company of Bates’ son and met the team of (mostly American) geeks who are putting together this colocation scheme. Briefly described, the two hollow supporting cylinders of the structure are to be filled with RAID servers. The devices are to be kept in a pure-nitrogen environment (and must be serviced by workers wearing SCUBA gear) to avoid rust. They plan to have fiber-optic links to both the Netherlands and England, and a couple of satlinks for redundancy in case those countries get ticked at Sealand. Among the activities they plan to support are Internet gaming and pornography, as well as the extremely lucrative data and e-mail hosting services. Colocation is an valued setup in which an individual’s or company’s data is held away from the contry’s home nation. SEC breathing down your neck about a pump-and-dump scheme? Sorry, all the data is in Sealand–go ask them. Justice wants all of your e-mail correspondence? Out of their jurisdiction. Bible-belt Americans can access bestiality pictures? Yep, Sealand plans to tell Falwell to pee up a rope if he tries to tell their clients to stop. They judiciously draw the line at kiddie porn. Considering an invasion to stop this scourge? Think again: Britain has moved their territorial waters and airspace thirteen kilometers past Sealand. Roy declared himself independent before that, so he’s still got a case, and now he’s protected by one of the finest navies in the world. It’s a unique and ingenious scheme which I think has a chance of succeeding, albeit a small one. I have contacted the “real” Sealand in an attempt to discern what their citizenship requirements are, but the situation looks poor. Turns out most “Sealanders” are of the Germano-Spanish pretender variety, and Bates only issued passports to a close circle of friends. I’ll let all of you know once I find out something. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2000, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/12 "2000-06-11T20:30:42Z")
Um, excuse those spelling and grammatical errors, please. My head hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2000, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/13 "2000-06-12T01:38:37Z")
I read the Sealand website and, Jesus Christ! Roy Bates must have balls the size of my head! He fired on a British warship for challenging his national waters? I’d say he was crazy, but since his nation is now officially recognized by English courts, I say he’s crazy like a fox. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/14 "2000-06-29T20:53:00Z")
Mr. Michael Bates, son of Prince Roy Bates, was good enough to answer some of my questions. I’ve reproduced his response, with some editing to make it more readable and to remove some of my own personal information: **Hi Thanks for your interest, I have answered your questions below.** - Sir: After reading a Reuters news flash in early April, 2000, I took it upon myself to do some research about your country. Unfortunately, my research was incomplete. Instead of finding your website, I discovered the pretender site which has now been exposed as a front for an international crime ring. Out of curiosity, I submitted an application for citizenship to that website, for which I (thankfully) have not received a response. \* **If you get a response please forward it to me** \*Recently, I read another article about Sealand in Wired magazine, which led me to your current site. I hope you might find the time to answer these questions: 1. Does the Principality of Sealand accept applications for citizenship? \* **Not at the moment we only give passports to people that have helped the cause.** _2) What is current number of Sealand citizens?_ **About 150** _3) Does the Principality of Sealand issue passports, and do you have diplomatic representatives residing in other countries?_ **Not yet when we settle down with havenco project we will persue this line** _4) In addition to Sealand’s data-hosting plans, what are some of Sealand’s other major goals and aspirations?_ **Raise a small island with harbour and persue any revenue producing projects that are acceptable to us** \*Thank you for your time. The people who have an interest in these matters are posters on the message boards at the website overseen by syndicated columnist Cecil Adams, at [http://www.straightdope.com](http://www.straightdope.com) . Here are two of the threads which I have posted to regarding your country. Any comments or clarifications you may have would be greatly appreciated. \* [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=14763](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=14763) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=26809](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=26809) \*Once again, thank you, Sofa King\* **Best regards, Michael** ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sofa-king-ever-get-your-sealand-id-papers/21700/15 "2000-06-29T23:04:02Z")
Right on Sofa King! Thanks for the updates. This has got to be one of the most fascinating small “countries” in the world right now. I’ll be keeping my eyes peeled for any news items in re Sealand. Maybe this should be also brought to the attention of Cecil Adams, in case he decides to update his column.