# Softball/Baseball question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812 "2005-09-02T22:19:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![brubble101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@brubble101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brubble101)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/1 "2005-09-02T22:19:14Z")
Situation: Runners on 1st (R1) and 2nd (R2). 0 outs. Batter (B) hits ground ball to ss who fields the ball and tags R2 who is still standing on 2nd. SS then steps on 2nd before R1 reaches 2nd and throws to first baseman before the batter reaches first. I was told R2 is not out since they were standing on the bag. What is the ruling in Baseball and ASA softball? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/2 "2005-09-02T22:38:11Z")
Triple play. R2 is forced to advance and may be tagged out. If the fielder had touched second before touching R2, it would have removed the force and R2 would be fine where he was. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/3 "2005-09-03T02:42:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Triple play. R2 is forced to advance and may be tagged out. If the fielder had touched second before touching R2, it would have removed the force and R2 would be fine where he was. Superb analysis. I must add the unsolicited comment that R2 really goofed here by not running when forced. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/4 "2005-09-03T03:02:24Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Superb analysis. > > I must add the unsolicited comment that R2 really goofed here by not running when forced. But an excellent job on the part of the fielder to recognize the force was still in effect and tag the runner ahead of stepping on the bag. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/5 "2005-09-03T03:29:07Z")
Ok, but does it ever really happen in the Major Leagues? If so, how often? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/6 "2005-09-03T03:41:40Z")
> [@siegel2@cox.net](#): > > Ok, but does it ever really happen in the Major Leagues? If so, how often? That a runner forgets to run – not very often. However, if there were a pull hitter like Ortiz up and the shortstop were near second and if a soft line drive were hit near second the runner could hold on the bag. If the shortstop could trap the ball rather than catch it, he could do this. The line drive would have to be low enough not to be called an infiled fly, that’s why I think you’d need to have the SS stationed near second. ---
**Author:** ![brubble101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@brubble101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brubble101)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/7 "2005-09-03T04:25:13Z")
The analysis presented is the one I assumed as well. However, as I said, the umpire ruled that a runner is SAFE on the bag. He further clarified that if a second runner occupied the bag, the second runner could be tagged for the out, but not the first one. I think that is bogus, but that was his ruling. Can anyone quote the rule in baseball which clarifies this? I found one that I think applies, but I’d like to see what others think. Further, is this rule different for ASA? There are subtle rules differences between baseball and softall, and I’m wondering if this is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Julius\_Henry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@Julius\_Henry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Julius_Henry)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/8 "2005-09-03T13:17:04Z")
> [@brubble101](#): > > The analysis presented is the one I assumed as well. > > However, as I said, the umpire ruled that a runner is SAFE on the bag. He further clarified that if a second runner occupied the bag, the second runner could be tagged for the out, but not the first one. I think that is bogus, but that was his ruling. Nope, the ump got the second part right. I couldn’t find ASA rules online, but here’s the relevant rule from MLB. > [@](#): > > **7.03** > Two runners may not occupy a base, but if, while the ball is alive, two runners are touching a base, the following runner shall be out when tagged. The preceding runner is entitled to the base. And here’s their rule showing the ump was wrong on the play. The last phrase is the relevant one here. > [@](#): > > **7.01** > A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base. ---
**Author:** ![brubble101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@brubble101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brubble101)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/9 "2005-09-03T13:23:09Z")
Thanks, **Julius Henry**. The rule you quoted about the runner and his entitlement to the base is the one I was thinking of as well. The play in question occurred because the batter hit a very soft line drive right at the shortstop. It was very difficult to tell if the shortstop caught it or short hopped it. The umpire didn’t make the call loudly enough to be heard by the runner, so the runner was pretty much caught in a dead zone. He assumed the ball was caught as did just about everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/10 "2005-09-03T17:54:42Z")
It’s a triple play. The rule about two runners occupying the same base is for when there ISN’T a force play. For example, say you have a runner on 3rd, and a runner on 2nd base. On the pitch, both runners begin to steal, but the runner at 3rd realized he won’t make it, and goes back to 3rd. Now you have both runners on base. If you tag the trail runner, he is out. In ASA (Rule 8-3-E) “Two runners may not occupy the same base simultaneously. EFFECT: The runner who first legally occupied the base shall be entitled to it, unless forced to advance. The other runner may be put out by being touched with the ball.” ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/11 "2005-09-03T19:13:22Z")
> [@siegel2@cox.net](#): > > Ok, but does it ever really happen in the Major Leagues? If so, how often? Yes, there are about 6-10 triple plays in the majors each year. Sometimes they happen like the OP described, but more often they occur with two runners on and a sharp line drive. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/12 "2005-09-03T19:13:55Z")
Fortunately the fielder doesn’t have to know which one to tag when two runners occupy a base and there is no force. Just tag them both and let the umpire figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/13 "2005-09-03T19:20:58Z")
If both runners are on the base and the front runner is tagged out, then the trailing runner would be safe. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/14 "2005-09-03T22:30:50Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > Yes, there are about 6-10 triple plays in the majors each year. Sometimes they happen like the OP described, but more often they occur with two runners on and a sharp line drive. There are about 0 to 5 triple plays in a year in the majors. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/15 "2005-09-03T23:20:20Z")
> [@Julius Henry](#): > > Nope, the ump got the second part right. I couldn’t find ASA rules online, but here’s the relevant rule from MLB. > > And here’s their rule showing the ump was wrong on the play. The last phrase is the relevant one here. \*\* 7.01\*\* A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base. [/quote] [/QUOTE] I don’t think that applies here, because the following runner isn’t legally entitled to the base - that would only apply to cases like a walk, HBP, balk, etc where the runner is awarded the next base. If he’s attempting to advance on a batted ball he has to attempt to advance at his own risk, but he isn’t _entitled_ to the base. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softball-baseball-question/319812/16 "2005-09-03T23:21:46Z")
Er, I hope you can all see what I was trying to do with those quote tags :smack: Preview, preview, preview!