# Software piracy - Are there real solutions **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329 "2010-05-13T18:21:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329/61 "2010-05-15T18:06:55Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > The only problem is that I believe it’s starting to escalate to the point that the DRM’s themselves are cutting into sales (see below). It certainly has with me; I simply refuse to touch games with DRM. Both out of principle, and because I don’t want to let their malware damage my computer. I don’t pirate either, so that means that these days I mostly play old games, or the occasional DRM free game. > [@begbert2](#): > > [QUOTE=Chronos] > I would maintain that it’s a matter of ethics, not morality. Morality is about what’s right and what’s wrong, and is absolute. Ethics is the set of rules that humans construct with the goal of achieving morality, and can vary with time or place. It’s a moral statement to say that someone who creates something that benefits others should receive some compensation for that, but an ethical issue as to how we see to it that that person gets compensation. I have never been able to understand a difference between the terms - to me it’s a distinction without a difference. (And no, your example here doesn’t help.) The fact that the notion of an objective ‘absolute’ morality is nonsensical to me is probably a contributing factor to my confusion. Regardless, when you hear me say one term feel free to substitute in the other freely; I certainly would. [/QUOTE] I’ve typically put ethics down as the high level and morals as the low level term, myself. At any rate, I see the difference as being between abstract principles, and the nitty-gritty systems of rules that we actually try to live by, and then have to violate when unforeseen circumstances turn up. Even though I don’t believe in objective morality either, I think that the lower level system is even less objective (for lack of a better way of putting it), because you have to deal with incidents that don’t fit into the system; typically by putting in an exception to the rule. The lower level system is going to be more of a hodgepodge because it isn’t floating up there in the world of poorly defined ideals. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329/62 "2010-05-15T19:25:28Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > So developers, writers, artists and musicians shouldn’t have any concern about money at all? None? > > This kind of thinking really blows my mind. It seems as though it is backwards, that the user of the content (whether music, movie or software) has some sort of right to the work of another person _just because copying is easy_. > > Slee In the olden days, artists could justify charging for copies of their material, as there was an actual product involved in transferring it to a printed or recorded medium, with artwork and other little knick-knacks to run your greedy little hands on. It’s a different matter entirely when all you are getting is megabits filled on a hard drive. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329/63 "2010-05-15T19:51:02Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > In the olden days, artists could justify charging for copies of their material, as there was an actual product involved in transferring it to a printed or recorded medium, with artwork and other little knick-knacks to run your greedy little hands on. It’s a different matter entirely when all you are getting is megabits filled on a hard drive. That may be true, but if it is, then why would anybody bother developing any sophisticated code anymore, the kind that takes whole teams of people and months of effort, if they wouldn’t be paid for it? They need to eat, too. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329/64 "2010-05-15T19:54:57Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > That may be true, but if it is, then why would anybody bother developing any sophisticated code anymore, the kind that takes whole teams of people and months of effort, if they wouldn’t be paid for it? They need to eat, too. Couldn’t they be employed by the console makers and given a weekly wage, like normal people? ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329/65 "2010-05-15T19:58:19Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > In the olden days, artists could justify charging for copies of their material, as there was an actual product involved in transferring it to a printed or recorded medium, with artwork and other little knick-knacks to run your greedy little hands on. It’s a different matter entirely when all you are getting is megabits filled on a hard drive. The performance/material \*\*IS \*\*the product. The delivery method is irrelevant. What you are saying, which I disagree with, is that the value of a CD/DVD isn’t the actual material on the CD/DVD but the packaging. That, quite frankly, is crap. If the bits on the hard drive are just data and have no value I am sure you are willing to post the following information in this thread: Your social security number Your home address All of your credit card numbers with the CCV and expiration dates Your banking account and routing numbers All of these are just bits on a computer somewhere yet you won’t post them (and I don’t expect you to) because, even though they are just bits on a hard drive somewhere, they have value. We give value to all kinds of things that are not physical. If you are going to get rid of rights for artists using the argument that it is just bits, then all kinds of other things are affected as well. I have a question for you. Suppose a recording artist got sick of the whole thing and decided to release his music only on vinyl. One of his fans buys the album, rips it to MP3 and releases it on the internet for anyone to download. Is that moral? If so, why? If not, why is it different? Another question. I work for a casino. We are fully digital. We have huge amounts of data on our guests who sign up for players cards. Does that information have value? Is it OK for anyone to copy it since it is nothing but bits on a computer? Should it be shared freely? Slee ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329/66 "2010-05-15T20:05:15Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Couldn’t they be employed by the console makers and given a weekly wage, like normal people? I’m not talking about games (although I think most people on this thread are) but general utility software for the PC or Mac, some of which is highly complicated. I don’t think we want Microsoft to employ ALL the developers that produce software for the PC. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329/67 "2010-05-15T20:10:10Z")
Look, the likes of Beethoven et al, didn’t have the luxuries today’s pampered, self-important artists have. If they wanted others to hear their stuff, they had to go out and perform it. Artists today are just fortunate that people have got the spare cash to be spending on their wares. You talk about R + D costs being a responsibility of the customer, but that’s like saying we are financially responsible for the tuition and lifestyle costs of an upcoming artist, because without that, they’d never have been the artist they became. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329/68 "2010-05-15T20:43:36Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Look, the likes of Beethoven et al, didn’t have the luxuries today’s pampered, self-important artists have. If they wanted others to hear their stuff, they had to go out and perform it. Artists today are just fortunate that people have got the spare cash to be spending on their wares. You can’t be serious. Are you really saying that musicians should be grateful when people pirate their work? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329/69 "2010-05-15T20:47:25Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > You can’t be serious. Are you really saying that musicians should be grateful when people pirate their work? No. They should be grateful for all the people who bought it. There are a lot of talented individuals out there who, because they haven’t had the right backing or guidance, or weren’t in the right place at the right time, never got their moment in the spotlight and an opportunity to milk their appreciators. ps. And no true rock n roller would object to the way the fan is putting it to the corporate man now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/software-piracy-are-there-real-solutions/539329.md?page=3)