# Softwood dispute could prompt trade war **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 16, 2004, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softwood-dispute-could-prompt-trade-war/274968 "2004-11-16T01:08:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softwood-dispute-could-prompt-trade-war/274968/1 "2004-11-16T01:08:16Z")
[Softwood dispute could prompt trade war](http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/11/15/lumber_041115.html). > [@](#): > > Montana Senator Max Baucus plans to introduce a bill as early as Tuesday that will allow U.S. lumber companies to keep an estimated $3.6 billion in duties paid on Canadian imports… > > “You can’t steal $4 billion from a country and not expect that there would be repercussions,” [said B.C. Forests Minister Mike de Jong] From what I heard on CBC Radio out of Vancouver, the U.S. says that Canada gives illegal subsidies to its lumber industry and charged a 27% tarriff on Canadian softwood coming into the States. The WTO decided that U.S. claims are not valid. So Senator Max Baucus (D - Montana) wants to pass a bill that would give the funds already collected (and which were found by the WTO to belong to Canada, since the U.S. claims are not valid) to U.S. lumber companies. The B.C. Minister called this ‘theft’. One possible repercussion would be the cessation of energy exports to the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softwood-dispute-could-prompt-trade-war/274968/2 "2004-11-16T01:31:44Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > One possible repercussion would be the cessation of energy exports to the U.S. Won’t happen. It’s absolutely not in Canada’s interest to stop energy exports, or even slap an export tax on them - not to mention that it would violate NAFTA. No, this will be played out according to NAFTA rules, at least on Canada’s end of the stick. I’m sure there are any number of people in the forestry industry who’d like to shove a entire lodgepole pine up Mr. Baucus’s ass, though. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softwood-dispute-could-prompt-trade-war/274968/3 "2004-11-16T04:35:20Z")
There’s .4 billion difference between Baucus’s 3.6 and de Long’s 4 billion. Is this due to the exchange rate, or is it just puffery? Everyone wants a level playing field, tilted a little toward his end. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softwood-dispute-could-prompt-trade-war/274968/4 "2004-11-16T05:08:39Z")
So give 'em all some Viagra and be done with it. Wha? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softwood-dispute-could-prompt-trade-war/274968/5 "2004-11-16T05:34:36Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > Baucus introduced the bill because he feels Canada won’t negotiate about the lumber dispute, an aide said. Canada won’t negotiate because it has won at the trade tribunals… Well, DUH. What did Baucus think the tribunals were _for_? > [@](#): > > …so the senator hopes the legislation will “kick-start” talks, the aide said. By this logic I should steal my neighbour’s stereo to “kick-start” talks about him lending me his stereo. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softwood-dispute-could-prompt-trade-war/274968/6 "2004-11-16T14:59:58Z")
Ah, the long sordid tale of softwood lumber. The U.S. tree farmers keep lobbying Congress for ridiculous tariffs, and then keep losing dispute after dispute. Is it any wonder than after nearly 3 decades of this protectionist crap that the only surviving Canadian lumber companies are lean, mean, tree-cutting machines? For what it’s worth, I interviewed de Jong two years ago when the U.S. started the latest round of 27% tariffs, and he was talking about cutting off energy supplies then too. Personally, I think Canada should announce it’ll be turning off electricity supplies for one day-- explain we’re doing it because we’ve won umpteen rounds of trade tribunals and Congress is still acting to drive up housing costs for U.S. consumers-- and **do it**. Preferably on U.S. Thanksgiving. Or Super bowl Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![tisiphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tisiphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tisiphone)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softwood-dispute-could-prompt-trade-war/274968/7 "2004-11-17T22:45:43Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > Personally, I think Canada should announce it’ll be turning off electricity supplies for one day-- explain we’re doing it because we’ve won umpteen rounds of trade tribunals and Congress is still acting to drive up housing costs for U.S. consumers-- and **do it**. Preferably on U.S. Thanksgiving. Or Super bowl Sunday. Wouldn’t that be fun? 😃 Unfortunately, won’t that lead to Canada being deemed a threat to US National Security, and have us being invaded by New Year’s? Which is why, incidentally, I adamantly oppose selling water to the States in anything other than bottles. Once those taps are opened, we won’t be allowed to ever turn them off, even if we start running out. Threat to National Security, y’know. I have also kinda wondered what would happen to the Alaskan salmon fleet in five - ten years if Canada suddenly stopped running all its hatcheries. Not that I’m willing to risk the extinction of the Canadian salmon runs to prove a point, nor do I wish the demise of the remaining shreds of our fleet, but it sure is nice to ponder periodically. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softwood-dispute-could-prompt-trade-war/274968/8 "2004-11-18T00:39:30Z")
I’m for Martin luring Bush up to Canada and then holding him ransom for $4 billion. Seriously, though, I am getting tired of the USA violating international law. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/softwood-dispute-could-prompt-trade-war/274968/9 "2004-11-18T00:39:31Z")
I’m for Martin luring Bush up to Canada and then holding him ransom for $4 billion. Seriously, though, I am getting tired of the USA violating international law.