# Solar FREAKIN' Roadways! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 23, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129 "2014-05-23T22:11:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/21 "2014-05-24T02:33:12Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > At best - at optimal, best-case, very-very best - it will work in a few limited situations like suburban plazas, tech campuses, universities and… …discotheques? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/22 "2014-05-24T03:14:41Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > That article is clearly some kind of joke. No shit? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/23 "2014-05-24T04:01:51Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > No shit? No; shit. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/24 "2014-05-24T04:27:02Z")
“We are not yet able to give numbers on cost. We are still in the midst of our Phase II contract with the Federal Highway Administration and we’ll be analyzing our prototype costs near the end of our contract which ends in July, 2014. Afterward, we’ll be able to do a production-style cost analysis.” Well - asphalt, AFAIR (admittedly, I know the prices for driveways, not for roads) is on the order of $3-5/ft^2. I really would expect the cost of those panels, with the heavy glass and electronics, even at high production volumes, to be at least $15/ft^2. Add to that the accessible concrete channel/heavy cables infrastructure they were talking about… and costs skyrocket. Notice that the video doesn’t mention cost at all. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/25 "2014-05-24T05:03:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well - asphalt, AFAIR (admittedly, I know the prices for driveways, not for roads) is on the order of $3-5/ft^2. I really would expect the cost of those panels, with the heavy glass and electronics, even at high production volumes, to be at least $15/ft^2. Add to that the accessible concrete channel/heavy cables infrastructure they were talking about… and costs skyrocket. Notice that the video doesn’t mention cost at all. We estimate asphalt for roads by the ton. For a 6" thick section, it works out to… about $4/sf on an assumed price of $100/ton. Yay! We’re close! Of course, there’s still the aggregate base layer, so roughly double that. The solar road will require a base prep, too, so that $15 would go up. Thinking more about it, there’s another issue. We use open grade AC to provide better pavement traction in wet conditions, and are moving to a high friction surface treatment (epoxy layer covered with high-durability aggregate) at trouble spots. You can’t do that with this system. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/26 "2014-05-24T05:08:11Z")
Who knows how the economics will shake out. There’s an REI store near me that put awnings with solar panels over their parking lot. Now, they’re the type of company that might well do that at a loss for the environmentalism and PR, but it does seem to be getting more competitive. If it’s worth it to them to put up awnings (which don’t need to be there at all) it might be worth it for someone who has to put in a driveway to spend the extra for this. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/27 "2014-05-24T05:11:12Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > Thinking more about it, there’s another issue. We use open grade AC to provide better pavement traction in wet conditions, and are moving to a high friction surface treatment (epoxy layer covered with high-durability aggregate) at trouble spots. You can’t do that with this system. Actually, it sounds like you sort of can. I was reading their FAQ and it said they tested different surface textures until one of them had enough grip to damage the test equipment. Then they went with the one slightly less grippy than that. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/28 "2014-05-24T06:32:32Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Actually, it sounds like you sort of can. I was reading their FAQ and it said they tested different surface textures until one of them had enough grip to damage the test equipment. Then they went with the one slightly less grippy than that. But they didn’t provide numbers, which would be meaningful. Until we know that, and how the system wears over time, they aren’t relating key data engineers need to know before putting something like this to use. There’s a test track, I think in Arkansas, that tests pavement designs. All day long, day in, day out, semi trucks drive laps around the track which is a patchwork of different pavement designs to see how they handle traffic loads. They really need to get even a non-working panel assembly out there to test wear characteristics of their surface and how the hexes perform as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/29 "2014-05-24T07:20:31Z")
This should start with sidewalks and patios first. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/30 "2014-05-24T13:22:37Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Who knows how the economics will shake out. There’s an REI store near me that put awnings with solar panels over their parking lot. Now, they’re the type of company that might well do that at a loss for the environmentalism and PR, but it does seem to be getting more competitive. Do they drive over their solar awnings? Are the awnings used to display driving and safety directions? If the power system for the awnings goes offline, does the entire store shut down for safety? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/31 "2014-05-24T13:26:00Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There’s an REI store near me that put awnings with solar panels over their parking lot. Now, they’re the type of company that might well do that at a loss for the environmentalism and PR, Well mainly its quite clear that if you can use the solar power directly (rather than exporting it ), solar is easily a good investment. This is because the rate earnt, or saved, ( cents per kWh , for example) from the solar power that is used on site (not exported) is the price they are paying for electricity units at the time… If you don’t use the power at the time its made (eg because the home is not normally using so much power at midday… ) then you get a lesser rate back back from the power company … the so called “Feed in Tarrif”, which in some cases is 0… zero… (Well I reckon a better deal is to encourage home owners to invest in solar a little…) ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/32 "2014-05-24T13:49:05Z")
Back to solar roads… well I guess the lifetime is limitted… it won’t be long before some truck’s trailer loses a tyre on one side and drags steel on the road , gouging out a 1/2" x 1/2" cross section for 50 miles along the surface… I like the bit how he said compared buried cables to … buried cables… He meant that the dangerous power cables are direct buried (no concrete conduit ) , and harder to locate being somewhat “randomly” located… But perhaps its better to keep the cities power cables away from the road surface… Anyway why is he jumping to road surface… first get in as roofing. Roofing is a far better place to start… Its only got to be waterproof and last a long time… ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/33 "2014-05-24T14:17:48Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > "We are not yet able to give numbers on cost… Once again: no shit? > [@](#): > > Well - asphalt, AFAIR (admittedly, I know the prices for driveways, not for roads) is on the order of $3-5/ft^2. I really would expect the cost of those panels, with the heavy glass and electronics, even at high production volumes, to be at least $15/ft^2. To be fair, this is not just a replacement for asphalt. If the goals could be achieved, some multiple of asphalt cost would be expected. But if it basically requires a road to be built first (everything except the topping, and cable channels to boot)… the costs are cumulative, not exclusive. > [@Isilder](#): > > Anyway why is he jumping to road surface… first get in as roofing. Roofing is a far better place to start… Its only got to be waterproof and last a long time… Because some other bright boys already got all the gummint money and VC for roof-based solar. We’ve got a HUGE effort to “solarize” our town going on right now… here in the New England forest… no, it’s not even funny… Next up: solar, um… trees! ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/34 "2014-05-24T14:20:03Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > There’s a test track, I think in Arkansas, that tests pavement designs. All day long, day in, day out, semi trucks drive laps around the track which is a patchwork of different pavement designs to see how they handle traffic loads. They really need to get even a non-working panel assembly out there to test wear characteristics of their surface and how the hexes perform as a whole. Why specify a nonworking assembly? Any assembly will be non-working in pretty short order. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/35 "2014-05-24T15:18:29Z")
I am highly skeptical. According to their [site](http://www.solarroadways.com/numbers.shtml), solar roadways will: never have snow or ice, never develop potholes, light up at night, give you messages, provide a cell phone network, purify drinking water, protect wildlife, provide national security, and finally (I love this one) lower your health insurance. I assume later designs will walk your dog, tutor your kids, and cook dinner for your family as well. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/36 "2014-05-24T15:54:07Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > I am highly skeptical. According to their [site](http://www.solarroadways.com/numbers.shtml), solar roadways will: never have snow or ice, never develop potholes, light up at night, give you messages, provide a cell phone network, purify drinking water, protect wildlife, provide national security, and finally (I love this one) lower your health insurance. > > I assume later designs will walk your dog, tutor your kids, and cook dinner for your family as well. Well, sure! The LEDs will display a moving frisbee for the dog to chase, print lessons in the lane, and under panel A345721 you’ll find a roast. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/37 "2014-05-24T16:36:31Z")
There are so many uses for the programmable LED displays, though: **TRUCK A HIT TO ABOUT YOU’RE** ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/38 "2014-05-24T16:53:44Z")
Burma Shave! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/39 "2014-05-24T17:02:28Z")
I have my doubts about this. They show a tractor driving on one by a tractor has nothing on a constant stream of fully-loaded 18 wheelers day an night. They say they are good for 250,00 lbs but how does that hold up over time? They also sort of gloss over the conduits on the sides of the roads. That might be fine for roads in the desert by on a hillside roadway that is a lot of real estate you have to account for. Someone on FB quote a price of $7000 per Hexagon. 😮 Don’t know how true that is, however. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129/40 "2014-05-24T17:15:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > "We are not yet able to give numbers on cost. “It would be a devastating blow to our antiquated systems.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solar-freakin-roadways/689129.md?page=3)