I really dislike the ‘everything else is high tech!’ “argument”. That’s not an argument for replacing asphalt. It’s also wrong; lots of basic stuff works just fine without being high tech: drywall, bricks, my desk, toilets, flower pots, whatever. There’s a hell of a lot more “low tech” stuff surrounding you than high tech stuff.
That anyone could think modern roadways are low tech is tellingly telling.
I have dealt with this mindset far too many times in the last few decades, which is why I am so down and sour on this proposal. Not only are the proponents usually complete idiots in everything except their - n a r r o w - s p e c i a l t y - but they tend to be patronizing or even dismissive towards everything they thing is “low tech” or “old fashioned” or “traditional” or “just a matter of some out-of-the-box engineering.”
When these guys build a one-mile road somewhere to modern civic engineering standards - and I mean bulldozer, gravel, cement and asphalt - I might start listening to them. I suspect they’d get real, real quiet, though and quit screaming about their pot-head dorm-room crowd-funded clusterfuck.
There are referring to a several critical articles and frankly I am not very impressed with the answers. The one about cost is particularly weak as the cost listed by more than a few sources was something like trillions of dollars just for the glass - never mind the panels, LEDs and electronics.
Also I doubt is a fair comparison for a shaded traffic light, a horizontal plasma screen vs. some LEDs under glass and facing straight up into the sun.
[QUOTE=Solar Roadways]
We wonder about people who reflexively dismiss our concept without trying to understand it, or go on public forums to attack us.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Solar Roadways]
Haters are going to hate. Nothing we can do about that.
[/QUOTE]
When a rebuttal resorts to ad hominems…
I notice that they mention public forums. They may be talking about us. Google does love the Straightdope forums so it’s very possible that this thread came to their attention.
A year and a half later, it looks like France is buying into the concept of solar roadways with 1000 km of roadways being built with solar panels by 2020, providing energy for 5 million people. It’s branded as “Wattway” and the link below contains a video about the concept.
France Plans to Install 621 Miles of Solar-Paneled Roads by 2020?
Seems a lot more believable than the previous bunch - Colas is an established company, and they seem to have a real product.
Assuming all the tech stuff is true, I’m trying to figure out the cost. Here Colas duck the question ‘What is the price per square metre?’ and give a figure of 6 euros per watt/peak. Colas claim 20 square metres of wattway can power a French home (sans heating). This sitegives a figure of 6,400 kwh for the average French home. But that’s including heating, so let’s halve it to 3,200 kwh. This sitesays a solar system that produces 1 kwP will provide 800-850 kwh over a year. So 4 kwP of wattway should be enough for our one French household
Multiplying those 4,000 w Peak by Colas’ estimate price of 6 Euros per watt/peak of wattway gives us 24,000 euros to pave those 20 square metres. If we assume the French roads are 10 metres wide (for ease of calculation) that’s a price of 12,000 Euros per metre of road paved. And the Wattway panels to pave the 1,000 kilometres of road mentioned in the Business Insider article will cost 12 billion Euros - plus all the installation costs, wiring and the like…
At least this doesn’t appear to be claiming to have builtin LED displays and heating elements. Even so, I have to wonder if the French government is getting bad advice. Maybe this is just something they’re studying and the media is jumping the gun in their reporting?
The last two paragraphs of JohnT’s link:
Oh, I see. There are some minor issues to be worked out yet, such as the cost, how to actually deliver the generated power, and how long it will take to lay 1,000 kilometers by hand. Yes, minor issues. :dubious:
And BJ’s! Don’t forget BJ’s!
Indeed, although I expect it’ll make more sense to just use the power generated to run the air con in public buildings or something of that nature rather than trying to hook it up to a national grid.
While the raw numbers obviously don’t stack up, I guess you could justify the investment to the French people as supporting French innovation and creating new jobs. It’s probably a better investment than bailing out a bank or such like anyway.
But I think some of the questions raised about “Solar Freakin’ Roadways” are just as relevant to this.
[ul]
[li]How well will it hold up to traffic?[/li][li]How much maintenance will be required? Will there be constant traffic congestion due to lanes being closed to fix or replace one or more panels?[/li][li]Why is this better than mounting panels alongside the road or on the median? Those at least could be angled to properly take advantage of the sun, would be much easier to maintain, and wouldn’t be subject to road wear.[/li][/ul]
Where every solar road has a happy ending!
This should be a link to a google earth shot of the area to be paved.
The bricked area. Not a busy street at all.
It does, and it doesn’t. The ‘solar roadways’ proposal that began this thread has far-fetched promises, but the physical engineering of the things seemed at least properly thought out - basically, the whole road surface needs rebuilding to accommodate the drop-in panels.
Wattway, on the other hand, appears to be just glueing solar panels on top of existing surfaces - although I’m sure they must have rigorously tested their product, it still seems unbelievable to me that you can glue a thin solar panel on a road and expect it to be working after a few thousand trucks have run over it.
From your link:
That’s a surface approximately 12ft by 12ft (assuming it’s square), or maybe a 25ft long, 6ft wide driveway. You won’t be driving very far on it.
In this small pilot project, the surface is bricked, so probably minimal reconstruction.
Maybe perfect for the cobbles in Europe. Sure will change the complexion of Paris-Roubaix.
Didn’t catch that part. It’s likely they will just pave the pedestrian area adjacent to the road in that case.
( I still might try and drive on it :D)
It actually might make some sense for pedestrian areas but they have to make certain that foot traffic won’t eventually wear it smooth creating a slip and fall hazard.
I like the idea of using highway right of ways to mount panels along the sides or on the median. I also like the idea of roofing over parking lots with panels.
There haven’t been enough comedy engineering projects of late. We could do the sums / study of basic physics and realize it won’t work. But just this once I’m kinda looking forward to seeing it play out. Actually seeing a mile or two of road getting built, and all the obvious problems that will be encountered.
They’ll be a desperate attempt to spin it as a success, while at the same time quietly announcing that plans to roll out the system for hundreds of miles of road are being postponed…with a “we’ll get back to you” new ETA.
Thanks for the updates. I’ve kind of gotten a case of the ass about anything that includes “crowdfunding.” I still haven’t gotten my patch from Bill Nye’s Solar Sail plan.