# Soldier \[Murdered and Possibly\] Beheaded in public street in London **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040 "2013-05-22T17:12:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/81 "2013-05-23T18:46:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That has to be one of the weirder title edits I have seen for a bit. How can a beheading not be a murder? > > If they killed some abortionist, we could call a spade a spade. But, they were Muslims, so we have to pussyfoot around the obvious. > > Regards, > Shodan Huh? What is being “pussyfooted” around? ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/82 "2013-05-23T18:46:49Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Wow, way to read your personal (off-topic) boogeymen into a perfectly innocent and accurate title edit. > > :smack: +1 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/83 "2013-05-23T18:58:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That has to be one of the weirder title edits I have seen for a bit. How can a beheading not be a murder? > > If they killed some abortionist, we could call a spade a spade. But, they were Muslims, so we have to pussyfoot around the obvious. > > Regards, > Shodan If you took a second to try to understand the title edit, you might not have gone off into conspiracy theory territory. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/84 "2013-05-23T19:21:56Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If you took a second to try to understand the title edit, you might not have gone off into conspiracy theory territory. Could you spell it out for me? I mean, he wasn’t accidentally beheaded as far as I know. Which means that he was murdered…no possibility about it, at least from my understanding of the term ‘murder’. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/85 "2013-05-23T19:24:35Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Could you spell it out for me? I mean, he wasn’t accidentally beheaded as far as I know. Which means that me was murdered…no possibility about it, at least from my understanding of the term ‘murder’. The brackets may be confusing. The word “possibly” applies to the word beheaded, and not to the word murdered, which is within the same brackets as “possibly”. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/86 "2013-05-23T19:26:30Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The brackets may be confusing. > > The word “possibly” applies to the word beheaded, and not to the word murdered, which is within the same brackets as “possibly”. Ah…yeah, that’s not how I read it. When I bracket something I usually mean it to be an aside that is linked together. So, I read it as A soldier beheaded in public with (murdered, possibly) as saying that there is some question about it being a murder. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/87 "2013-05-23T19:30:55Z")
Curious: Is there any indication at this point whether the victim was targeted because he was a soldier, or did they just aim their car at some random guy and then go all Jason on him? Was he in uniform at the time of the attack? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/88 "2013-05-23T19:34:08Z")
Yes, there is an indication they knew or at least suspected as much. One of the guys ranting makes mention of the fact that the victim was military. Whether they’d been tracking him or interpreted his Help For Heros shirt to indicate that I’ve no idea. I do not believe the victim was in uniform at the time, although some article of his may well have alluded to that. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/89 "2013-05-23T19:34:23Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Curious: Is there any indication at this point whether the victim was targeted because he was a soldier, or did they just aim their car at some random guy and then go all Jason on him? Was he in uniform at the time of the attack? The indication is that it was almost certainly because he was a soldier and they would’ve known this because he had just walked out of Woolwich barracks. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/90 "2013-05-23T19:42:41Z")
I’ve tweaked the thread title (changed the comma to ‘and’) to clear things up. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/91 "2013-05-23T20:33:26Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Curious: Is there any indication at this point whether the victim was targeted because he was a soldier, or did they just aim their car at some random guy and then go all Jason on him? Was he in uniform at the time of the attack? Supposedly he was wearing a t-shirt that identified him as one. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/92 "2013-05-23T20:43:57Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Neither is South Korea, contrary to certain intimations from a not very nice country in the region. Yet, the US military personnel are, as mentioned, strongly advised to use the buddy system when venturing out. I was just curious if the UK had a similar advice for their folks given how not a few people seem to view military folk. Do you also blame the rape victim for wearing clothing unbecoming? ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/93 "2013-05-24T06:36:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Supposedly he was wearing a t-shirt that identified him as one. Not quite true - you can see from photos that he’s wearing a navy “help for heroes” hoodie (available to buy at [http://shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/](http://shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/) - the shop crashed yesterday due to demand). It’s a charity that supports “wounded, injured and sick Service personnel, veterans, and their families”, but anyone can buy one, so it’s not the case that anyone wearing one would be correctly identified as a soldier. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/94 "2013-05-24T06:57:38Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > The UK is not a war zone you know. :dubious: Well, fair is fair, that all depends on footy results. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/95 "2013-05-24T13:15:39Z")
Thanks. I figured he was probably targetted because he was a soldier, but didn’t know how they identified him as one. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/96 "2013-05-24T13:17:44Z")
Of course, if it turns out that under the hoodie he was wearing a t-shirt that said “I’m a soldier just back from killing Muslims in Afghanistan”, then I owe you a rather big apology… ---
**Author:** ![Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stark_Raven_Mad)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/97 "2013-05-28T11:02:19Z")
For everyone who was wondering what that lady was doing talking to the two guys who killed the soldier, [here’s](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/27/woolwich-witness-ingrid-loyau-kennett) her account of it. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/98 "2013-05-28T16:20:03Z")
It has just been announced that one of the killers and his family had been targets for recruitment by MI5. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/99 "2013-05-28T17:23:27Z")
What confuses me is why this is being treated as a full-blown terrorist attack. To me it seems to have far more in common with racist and homophobic hate crimes than the 7/7 bombings. Had the Metropolitan Police taken the [Stephen Lawrence murder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Stephen_Lawrence) even half as seriously it wouldn’t have taken 18 years to bring a fraction of the perpetrators to justice. In my opinion the categorising of this despicable act as a terrorist threat has more to do with placating right-wing sentiment in certain tabloid newspapers than a rational assessment of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/100 "2013-05-28T18:50:49Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > What confuses me is why this is being treated as a full-blown terrorist attack. To me it seems to have far more in common with racist and homophobic hate crimes than the 7/7 bombings. Had the Metropolitan Police taken the [Stephen Lawrence murder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Stephen_Lawrence) even half as seriously it wouldn’t have taken 18 years to bring a fraction of the perpetrators to justice. In my opinion the categorising of this despicable act as a terrorist threat has more to do with placating right-wing sentiment in certain tabloid newspapers than a rational assessment of the situation. the murderers were quite specific as to their motives. It was a religious war. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040.md?page=6)