# Soldier \[Murdered and Possibly\] Beheaded in public street in London **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040 "2013-05-22T17:12:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/101 "2013-05-28T18:55:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the murderers were quite specific as to their motives. It was a religious war. Yep. “The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are dying daily by British soldiers. And this British soldier is one. It is an eye for eye and a tooth for a tooth. By Allah, we swear by the almighty Allah, we will never stop fighting until you leave us alone.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/102 "2013-05-28T22:00:40Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > By Allah, we swear by the almighty Allah Would a devout Muslim say that? They share much religious stuff with Jews, and we sure as heck can’t swear by G-d. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/103 "2013-05-28T23:08:08Z")
Islam at its finest. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/104 "2013-05-28T23:20:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the murderers were quite specific as to their motives. It was a religious war. So what is the difference between religious and racial or homophobic motives that make one a terrorist and the others hate crimes? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/105 "2013-05-28T23:22:01Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > Islam at its finest. I don’t know, theses guys certainly had panache, but they certainly weren’t able to generate the kind of terror these Catholics did. [http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford\_pub\_bombings](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildford_pub_bombings) I think, in this comparison the Catholics come out ahead, they’re lack of flair notwithstanding. As for the lack if flair that’s probably related to sexual repression. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/106 "2013-05-28T23:30:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the murderers were quite specific as to their motives. It was a religious war. Should the Guilford bombings be viewed as part of a “religious war”? Should the bombing of the King David Hotel by a future Israeli PM have been seen as part of “a religious war”? The wannabe Jihadis in this case, killed the poor soldier for the same reason the boyos murdered some off-duty British soldiers and Begin’s followers killed British soldiers in Palestine. They were fighting against the perceived occupation of their nations as well as the slaughter of their citizens(particularly women and children), though the latter was not as true in Palestine and Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/107 "2013-05-29T00:04:44Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Should the bombing of the King David Hotel by a future Israeli PM have been seen as part of “a religious war”? I think calling the hotel three times to get them to evacuate may be a bit different. :)\ ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/108 "2013-05-29T00:24:00Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think calling the hotel three times to get them to evacuate may be a bit different. > :)\ Whether or not adequate warning was given is heavily disputed. Beyond that, It’s irrelevant to the question of whether or not it was part of a “religious war”. Based on Mac’s reasoning it was clearly a shot in a religious war, but I suspect those who insist the British commander said “we don’t take orders from Jews” felt it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/109 "2013-09-27T15:31:34Z")
Update: [Pair denies grisly broad daylight murder of British soldier on busy London street](http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/27/20716737-pair-denies-grisly-broad-daylight-murder-of-british-soldier-on-busy-london-street#comments) > [@](#): > > As well as denying the murder charges, the defendants each pleaded not guilty to charges of conspiracy to murder a police officer and attempted murder of a police officer, officials said. This sounds like a _Monty Python_ sketch. Judge: How do you plea? Defendants: Not guilty! Judge: Are you sure? Defendant(s): Oh, yes, My Lord; we’re completely innocent! Judge: Ahem… I believe the prosecution is in possession of video evidence showing the attack, and your… enthusiastic… confession. Defendant(s): No, they’re not! Prosecutor: M’Lord, we _are_ in possession of such evidence. It clearly shows the defendants committing the act. Defendant(s): No, it doesn’t! Prosecutor: It does! Defendant(s): It does _not!_ We will show that the the phones that recorded the video had all been drinking! And so on. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040/110 "2013-09-27T20:34:47Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > Especially as there was an armed unit less than 1.5 miles away at Greenwich Crown Court. > > On Review - if it was only 14 minutes from first call to armed response as the Guardian reports, then that isn’t unreasonable IMO. Initial reports were over 20 minutes of the two attackers wandering around the street and interacting with the unarmed public before armed police arrived on scene. Hm, unless they are sitting around in a response vehicle, and have a magic wand to dissipate traffic, 14 minutes is quite good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldier-murdered-and-possibly-beheaded-in-public-street-in-london/659040.md?page=5)