# Soldiers who think the rules don't apply to them **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 1, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250 "2013-05-01T20:11:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/81 "2013-05-06T05:10:19Z")
I don’t really feel the need to. Look, as a former soldier myself, I understand the importance of morale-building measures. It’s not like I’ve not been exposed to plenty of them myself - and that’s cool. It’s just that I expect troops with a reasonable level of intelligence to see through the bullshit that every soldier on the planet has shoveled on them by his or her brass. Bullshit like referring to soldiers as “Soldiers”, as if a \*word \*somehow makes them more special, rather than their training and capabilities. Soldiers should be proud of who they are and what they’ve achieved, not what they’re called. Besides, as a professional translator, I’m offended by the misuse of capital letters. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/82 "2013-05-06T05:55:17Z")
Okay, okay, you can’t rape and murder your way through the Middle East without being prosecuted. I understand your frustration. But torture’s on the menu! Would some waterboarding and giving out a beating or two with a rubber hose make you feel better? ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/83 "2013-05-06T07:06:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m sorry, but the Army Manual of Style does not determine the rules of grammar for the English language; or at least, it doesn’t determine them for people who are not members of the U.S. armed force. > > \*\*Occupations are not proper nouns. > \*\* Personally, I don’t care if you use “Soldier” or “soldier.” I do know that it is the preferred usage for those of us who are in the Military to use Soldier. The regs don’t apply to civilian correspondence anyway. Be happy, Woo-hoo, you don’t have to press the shift key for one letter. SFC Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/84 "2013-05-06T13:25:54Z")
[quote=“Alessan, post:79, topic:657250”] I’m sorry, but the Army Manual of Style does not determine the rules of grammar for the English language…/QUOTE] You do realize you’re talking to a guy who posts to an internet forum _using his military rank in his user name_, don’t you? > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Okay, okay, you can’t rape and murder your way through the Middle East without being prosecuted. I understand your frustration. > > But torture’s on the menu! Would some waterboarding and giving out a beating or two with a rubber hose make you feel better? And you wonder why people pit you… ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/85 "2013-05-06T13:34:51Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > You’ve never been in line behind someone at a store shamelessly begging for a “military discount”"? You must not do your own shopping. I haven 't either and I live very near one of the largest military bases in the world. Even if they did ask I think I’d be fine with it. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/86 "2013-05-06T13:46:34Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Air Force has soldiers? Who knew? > > And they’re in the military? I guess sorta. I kid I kid. Your relentless contempt for the United States Air Force is exemplary of the divisive low-class narrow minded attitude found in other branches of the armed forces. My son is USAF and I am here to tell you that he takes his loyalty oath every fucking bit as seriously as any other soldier serving the United States. He is a soldier. You doubtless have some semantics rule or reg that only defines Army as having soldiers serving. Real Americans know who the soldiers are. Those who have volunteered to serve. Under the rules in the Pit I know better than to use foul or hate speech in addressing you. It is not a warn or ban offense to inform you that your attitude, IMHO, makes you undeserving to wear the uniform that is assigned to you. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/87 "2013-05-06T14:30:42Z")
> [@SSG\_Schwartz](#): > > … I do know that it is the preferred usage for those of us who are in the Military to use Soldier… > > SFC Schwartz Try telling that to a Marine and he will remind you that a soldier’s only purpose is to relieve the Marines after they have taken the objective. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/88 "2013-05-06T14:39:45Z")
Yeah… that doesn’t change the fact that Marines are also (small-‘s’) soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/89 "2013-05-06T14:59:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah… that doesn’t change the fact that Marines are also (small-‘s’) soldiers. Well, there’s the idea that the word is a title so, like _Mister_, it’s capitalized. I don’t have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/90 "2013-05-06T15:11:05Z")
Drat. The connection dropped a bunch of times. Here’s what I meant to post. Well, there’s the idea that the various terms are titles, like _Mister_, so they’re capitalized. Also, in the US, the different branches of the Armed Forces have particular terms for their members: [ul][li]Army - Soldier[/li][li]Navy - Sailor[/li][li]Marines - Marine[/li][li]Air Force - Airman[/li][li]Coast Guard - Guardsman (?)[/ul][/li] I don’t have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/91 "2013-05-06T15:12:07Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Well, there’s the idea that the word is a title so, like _Mister_, it’s capitalized. I don’t have a problem with that. The military (or should that be “Military”) would like to boss around the dictionary. > **[Military Benefits News and Resources](https://www.military.com/benefits)** > > Military.com provides millions of active military, retired and veterans with benefits information including health, education, military discounts, jobs and more. Actually, the USAF hasn’t started insisting on capitalizing “Airmen” yet. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/92 "2013-05-06T16:14:13Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Drat. The connection dropped a bunch of times. Here’s what I meant to post. > > Well, there’s the idea that the various terms are titles, like _Mister_, so they’re capitalized. Also, in the US, the different branches of the Armed Forces have particular terms for their members: > > [ul][li]Army - Soldier[/li][li]Navy - Sailor[/li][li]Marines - Marine[/li][li]Air Force - Airman[/li][li]Coast Guard - Guardsman (?)[/ul][/li] > I don’t have a problem with that. Titles are only capitalized when used as titles. For instance, Doctor Jones is a doctor, Sergeant Smith is a sergeant. In the case of Airman Williams I suppose it works, but who says Marine Thompson? ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/93 "2013-05-06T16:52:44Z")
> [@tonyfop](#): > > And lastly, the Airman in the story is a douche. You do not make a statement in uniform. I would not be surprised if he faced an Article 15, or whatever the Air Force calls it. You don’t wear the uniform to demand special treatment. Yeah, it’d be an Article 15. The UCMJ is across all services. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/94 "2013-05-06T17:05:58Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Your relentless contempt for the United States Air Force is exemplary of the divisive low-class narrow minded attitude found in other branches of the armed forces. > > My son is USAF and I am here to tell you that he takes his loyalty oath every fucking bit as seriously as any other soldier serving the United States. He is a soldier. You doubtless have some semantics rule or reg that only defines Army as having soldiers serving. Real Americans know who the soldiers are. Those who have volunteered to serve. > > Under the rules in the Pit I know better than to use foul or hate speech in addressing you. > > It is not a warn or ban offense to inform you that your attitude, IMHO, makes you undeserving to wear the uniform that is assigned to you. Sorry man but I’ve been in the USAF since 1995 and served in the ranks from E1 thru E5 and O1 thru O4 and can tell you with absolute certainty that there isn’t an airman out there that would ever want to be referred to as a soldier. We aren’t soldiers. We’re airmen. Soldiers are only found in the Army. If you ask 100 active duty airmen this question 100 of them will give you the same answer. As far as the airman in the article goes I would say he’s a douche and I think it’s poor taste to parade yourself in uniform like that. If he wanted to take her to prom he could have rented a tux. Wearing your service dress uniform says “look at me in my militariness” and is low class IMHO. I feel the same way about the clowns who wear uniforms on The Price is Right and Wheel of Fortune. It’s embarrassing to me as a fellow serviceman. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/95 "2013-05-06T17:17:33Z")
And the salute at the end really puts it over the top. Not sure what he was saluting exactly. For what it’s worth though I wouldn’t reprimand him over it or anything. Would probably just shake my head and move on. One of his NCOs probably will though. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/96 "2013-05-06T17:29:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Stupid MORP proselytizers. Are those the fat kids in wizard costumes I see in YouTube clips, who throw tennis balls at people while yelling, “Fireball! Fireball!” If so, what the fuck kind of prom did your school organize? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/97 "2013-05-07T00:02:40Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Sorry man but I’ve been in the USAF since 1995 and served in the ranks from E1 thru E5 and O1 thru O4 and can tell you with absolute certainty that there isn’t an airman out there that would ever want to be referred to as a soldier. We aren’t soldiers. We’re airmen. Soldiers are only found in the Army. If you ask 100 active duty airmen this question 100 of them will give you the same answer. > > As far as the airman in the article goes I would say he’s a douche and I think it’s poor taste to parade yourself in uniform like that. If he wanted to take her to prom he could have rented a tux. Wearing your service dress uniform says “look at me in my militariness” and is low class IMHO. I feel the same way about the clowns who wear uniforms on The Price is Right and Wheel of Fortune. It’s embarrassing to me as a fellow serviceman. I stand corrected. My objection was to the derisive tone used in the quote in my post. However, I must yield to your expertise regarding the use of the term. My apologies. ETA: Your post begs a good question. Fight some Ignorance please. What situations are appropriate for a uniform to be worn, aside from obvious military ceremonies? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/98 "2013-05-07T00:25:52Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > I feel the same way about the clowns who wear uniforms on The Price is Right and Wheel of Fortune. It’s embarrassing to me as a fellow serviceman. IIRC, those folks wearing the uniform on the game shows are doing so with the express approval of the military. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/99 "2013-05-07T00:39:52Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > That is even weirder. You take your dad to a Purity Ball, not to the prom. You go with your dad to the Camp Fire Girls Father-Daughter Banquet. When you are 11! Exactly. Prom is for making out. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250/100 "2013-05-07T01:04:48Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > Exactly. Prom is for making out. I have it on good authority from some of my students that all of you horrified-about-going-to-a-prom-with-your-brother folks are certifiably old. 😛 I never had a prom, thank heavens, so I don’t know what they were like back then. But apparently nowadays, what with expensive prom venues (no more dances in the gym with punch and paper streamers!) and all-night afterparties and designer dresses, more and more high schoolers are treating proms as once-in-a-lifetime party opportunities that they’re entitled to have a good time at, no matter what their couple status is. They go “as friends” with friends or acquaintances or even strangers of the opposite sex, they go “with” their friends of the same sex, many gay ones go in same-sex couples but everybody knows who’s a same-sex couple and who’s just going “with” a same-sex friend, they go what we would have called “stag” or “doe” with a bunch of friends of the same sex, they go in a mixed group. And some of them even go with a relative. And apparently making-out opportunities are not confined to those who attend with a partner, because the “single” attendees of whatever description dance and socialize with one another. If you go to prom with your sibling, you can just go off with somebody else for a while and your sibling will dance with your friends, or their friends, or cruise the “singles” for a temporary attachment of their own. The idea of a high school prom as a single-minded shrine to teen romance, where all participants are rigidly paired off and every couple is supposed to be either madly in love or sweating in agonized awkwardness through elementary courtship rituals with a date whom they don’t really like very much or who doesn’t really like them very much, appears to be growing somewhat obsolete. I’m sure it lingers on in many places, but it’s no longer a universal norm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-think-the-rules-dont-apply-to-them/657250.md?page=6)