# Soldiers who wound themselves to get off the front lines **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 9, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893 "2012-01-09T05:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/1 "2012-01-09T05:10:01Z")
How common is it nowadays? In what wars since, say, the War of 1812 has it been the worst? With what charge(s), in the U.S. and its allies, are the soldiers prosecuted, if at all? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/2 "2012-01-09T14:46:53Z")
It’s always been uncommon in terms of percentages, but common enough that everyone knows it goes on. I’ve heard some people claim the long conflict in Iraq may have been the worst in history in terms of percentage of soldiers self-injuring to avoid a deployment. There are a few charges you could face, and yes, soldiers do get charged for it. Some 23 have been prosecuted for it since 2003. Not being a military lawyer, what immediately comes to mind is the charge of malingering which is more often people who exaggerate or invent injuries than self-injure, but I think the article would apply to self injury as well. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/3 "2012-01-09T15:25:20Z")
During the My Lai massacre in Vietnam the only American casualty was a soldier that shot himself in the foot because he was so disgusted by what was going on and wanted to get out of there. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/4 "2012-01-09T17:58:46Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > During the My Lai massacre in Vietnam the only American casualty was a soldier that shot himself in the foot because he was so disgusted by what was going on and wanted to get out of there. Owie! I think instead of fucking up the tiny bones in the foot, I would actually try and shoot myself through a calf muscle. with modern ammo, you can lose the foot depending on how much damage there actually was. [and I hate movies that show a shoulder shot and the guy is using the arm to do stuff the same day with a little bit of bandaging. A cousin of mine lost use of his arm totally because the shoulder blade was shattered and it severed the nerves entirely. hell, I broke a collarbone and couldn’t use the arm for a couple of weeks other than to let it sit in the sling and occasionally wiggle my fingers to keep them from being bored.] ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/5 "2012-01-09T18:09:10Z")
During WWI, a UK soldier who inflicted a wound upon himself [could be executed by firing squad](http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWblighty.htm). In the event, though, none of the nearly 4,000 British soldiers convicted of self-inflicted wounds were actually executed. The 2004 film [A Very Long Engagment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Very_Long_Engagement) also hinges upon the fates of five French soldiers who are sentenced to death for self-mutilation. In the movie, however, the five of them are “made examples of” and are forced to go into the No Man’s Land for as long as they can survive, rather than simply facing the firing squad. Whether this was something that actually happened, or an outlandish flourish that never could have happened, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/6 "2012-01-09T18:23:33Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > In the movie, however, the five of them are “made examples of” and are forced to go into the No Man’s Land for as long as they can survive, rather than simply facing the firing squad. Whether this was something that actually happened, or an outlandish flourish that never could have happened, I don’t know. Upon further research, the author of the novel apparently based this on an incident reported by [General Fayolle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89mile_Fayolle) in his memoirs. From [here:](http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/nfs_18/nfs_18_00022.html#Criticism) > [@](#): > > At various points in the novel, characters express disbelief that the French army could really have done something so callous as to toss their own men over the trenches to serve as shooting practice for the enemy. The reader wonders whether Japrisot [the author] invented the incident for the sake of telling a good story. This is, after all, a work of fiction. But near the end of the novel, the author very deliberately inserts a passage from the memoirs of General (later Field Marshall) Fayolle, a World War I commander. The memoirs were published in 1965 and include a record of a meeting of French generals in January 1915, during which General Pétain, later to become the French hero of Verdun, ordered that twenty-five French soldiers who had shot themselves in the hand should be bound and thrown over the trenches closest to the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/7 "2012-01-09T21:03:12Z")
Most British soldiers found guilty of cowardice/desertion etc. in WW1 (Mostly suffering from combat fatigue) were offered the choice of the firing squad or of being in the front rank of the next assault over the “Top”. Which was quite frankly, a slightly delayed death sentence anyway. People in recent conflicts are in no way the same conditions as they were, do not spend anywhere as much time actually in the theatre of operations, let alone in face to face conditions. Any one who "fakes out"in such a situation is basically a total, gutless, parasitical coward. But apart from that I have no strong views on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/8 "2012-01-09T23:55:24Z")
Prior to our deployment to the first Gulf War (during the run-up to our deployment), we had a guy in our unit who was “accidentally” shot in the foot in a “hunting accident” (his brother-in-law supposedly had an AD). The wound wasn’t much more than a bad “graze,” with no through-and-through bullet penetration of the actual foot. There was an investigation, and the wound was consistent with a non-self-inflicted wound. So no charges were filed. He was transfered to Battalion Rear Detachment (the very, very few guys who stayed stateside during our deployment). No one cold prove that his BIL shot him just so he could get out of deploying to Saudi Arabia, but just about everyone believed it. Guy was denied re-enlistment afterwards, and not on medical grounds, either. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/9 "2012-01-10T03:42:27Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > How common is it nowadays? In what wars since, say, the War of 1812 has it been the worst? With what charge(s), in the U.S. and its allies, are the soldiers prosecuted, if at all? I take it that this is inspired by Private Thomas of the Royal Medical Corps? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/10 "2012-01-10T04:33:51Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Not being a military lawyer, what immediately comes to mind is the charge of malingering which is more often people who exaggerate or invent injuries than self-injure, but I think the article would apply to self injury as well. Yes, [Article 115 (Malingering)](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000915----000-.html): > [@](#): > > Any person subject to this chapter who for the purpose of avoiding work, duty, or service— > > (1) feigns illness, physical disablement, mental lapse or derangement; or > > (2) intentionally inflicts self-injury; > > shall be punished as a court-martial may direct. ---
**Author:** ![Sizzles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e480ec/32.png) [@Sizzles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sizzles)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/11 "2012-01-10T08:07:08Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > People in recent conflicts are in no way the same conditions as they were, do not spend anywhere as much time actually in the theatre of operations, let alone in face to face conditions. I don’t think that’s correct. ITIR British soldiers in the WW1 rotated spending one week in the front-line and two weeks in rear support trenches (still dangerous, but not face to face). I recently read a book on the Welsh Guards in Afganistan (sorry can’t recall the title or author) but the book said they several months in forward positions under daily attack. In that book, it said soldiers showing signs of combat stress were sent home, so I suspect you would be repatriated before it got to the point where you would self-harm. It also described an occation where a soldier faked combat stress in order to be sent home. He was sent home, but once it was found he was faking, he was charged (can’t remember the exact charge). It was later decided to drop the charges and dishonourably discharge him from the Army. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/12 "2012-01-10T12:17:18Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Yes, [Article 115 (Malingering)](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000915----000-.html): What does “shall be punished as a court-martial may direct” mean? Anything the court martial feels like, from admonishment to death penalty? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/13 "2012-01-10T12:31:16Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Yes, [Article 115 (Malingering)](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000915----000-.html): What does “shall be punished as a court-martial may direct” mean? Anything the court martial feels like, from admonishment to death penalty? By the way, many WWI French soldiers were executed for self-inflicted wounds, real or imaginary (contrarily to British soldiers, apparently). It seems that enquiries were often almost non-existent. In one case, six men were sentenced on the basis of a form stating that that medical examination showed a wound consistent with point-blank gun fire (I mean a standard form where you just had to add the name of the soldier). After a surgeon removed sharpnel from one of these wounds, commanding officers had second thoughts, but half the sentenced men had already been executed. Also, I too am surprised that there’s any truth in the scene from “a long engagement”. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/14 "2012-01-10T17:51:26Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I take it that this is inspired by Private Thomas of the Royal Medical Corps? Sah! :: sharp salute :: ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/15 "2012-01-10T19:20:41Z")
IIRC, Kubrick’sfirst major movie, Paths of Glory, dealt with the WWI French generals’ willingness to ignore competence, truth and common decency in the treatment of their soldiers. Not sure if that was based in any way on a true story. Of course, before septic treatments and germ theory were widely understood, I suspect inflicting a major wound was not a matter of trading a banadaged for for a trip to the front. Infection and amputation were probably real risks. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/16 "2012-01-10T21:43:12Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > What does “shall be punished as a court-martial may direct” mean? Anything the court martial feels like, from admonishment to death penalty? As with the other laws of the country and states there is a separate portion in which the penalties are enumerated. (3) Intentional self-inflicted injury. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years. (4) Intentional self-inflicted injury in a hostile fire pay zone or in time of war. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/17 "2012-01-11T19:21:10Z")
How are such things handled nowadays? Presumably it does still happen, but I’d expect (hope?) that such things would be treated as a mental health issue (effectively self harming) rather than a disciplinary one. Also the protagonist A Very Long Engagement didn’t actually shoot himself, he put his limb over the top of the trench and waved it around until it was shot (according to the book at least there was a tacit agreement among the opposing snipers as to what this meant, and they were willing go along). ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/18 "2012-01-11T19:33:15Z")
They are extremely hard cases to prosecute based on less than 25 convictions in the last 9 years time. Which means most incidents either go unpunished or there is some deal worked out that involves dramatically less than the statutory maximum in punishment. It’s not dissimilar from civilian crimes: if the crime is difficult to prove the prosecutor will almost always offer generous terms since the chance of conviction is low. Most prosecutors have like 90%+ convictions rates precisely because they don’t let potential acquittals get to that point more than they absolutely must. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/19 "2012-01-11T20:05:21Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > They are extremely hard cases to prosecute based on less than 25 convictions in the last 9 years time. Which means most incidents either go unpunished or there is some deal worked out that involves dramatically less than the statutory maximum in punishment… Or some offenders were simply shot on orders of pissed-off superiors, without trial or records. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soldiers-who-wound-themselves-to-get-off-the-front-lines/608893/20 "2012-01-11T21:39:02Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > As with the other laws of the country and states there is a separate portion in which the penalties are enumerated. > . Thanks. I didn’t know it was a standard format, being accustomed to a code where both the definition of the offense and the sanction appear in the same article.That’s why I was puzzled.