An amount of dubiety is warranted, but don’t be too quick to throw out a major source of information on the subject. This would put too much credence in the word of prison guards and wardens. Information without balance is…unbalanced.
True, but so what? This discussion is in the context of prison systems. Hooray for everyone who isn’t in the prison system, but there isn’t any relevance in that to this thread. You should have bought Xerox in 1962, too, but it’s a little late to bring that up.
Solitary confinement as a behavior changer isn’t really very effective. If it were, I could understand using it the way it is used currently.
It makes the mentally ill worse. It drives up costs of caring for them. Left in segregation, they tend to injure themselves and attempt suicide far, far more often than the non mentally ill inmate population. And it tends to make their mental illnesses worse, which means more costly treatments, and more challenges in returning them to society when they leave prison. And they do leave prison.
I actually miss the days of mental institutions. While no picnic, on average it was often better for the mentally ill to be confined to one of those than to be confined to prison.
Solitary is appropriate confinement for those inmates who are a danger to others. But the majority of solitary inmates in our system are not dangers to others. Solitary is an effective punitive corrective tool for a small segment of the population. But this tool has been expanded to be used on many more inmates on whom it is not effective. And that’s not efficient, economical, or wise.
I believe there is a significant constituency who believe that is good thing.
I think forced labor is far more compassionate than solitary confinement.
I’m not throwing out anything, nor am I accepting it at face value. I need more than a convict’s word for it.
You seem to have skipped over the part where I asked why this guy can’t seem to abide by the rules in the prison system. OK, so he is a fuck up to the point where he gets sent to prison. But even behind bars he fucks up so much more than the other inmates that he gets sent to solitary a lot.
You also need to note the weasel words in the article. Even this guy doesn’t claim he was in solitary for the whole time. He (or at least the author of the article) says he was in solitary or some other kind of special custody for the period he says was such an abuse.
He’s trying to make it sound as bad as he can, obviously.
I need more than this article to conclude that he was being locked away from the sun for months just because he had too many stamps. It might just be possible that the stamps were not just an isolated incident, or that anyone who eats an apple core is tossed in the hole right off.
Gosh, a convict complaining that he doesn’t like it in prison. What more evidence of widespread abuse do we need?
Regards,
Shodan
What am I, on your ignore list?
See posts #13, 19 and 22.
See posts #13, 19 and 22.
Is this case, my post is my cite. Three decades working in NY prisons. There’s a decent chance I was one of the people who sent Mr Mualimm-ak to SHU. And if not, I certainly sent thousands of others there.
First point, prisoners do not get routinely sent to SHU for things like having extra pencils or postage stamps or eating apples. Those are trivial charges and they’re normally handled with punishments like having to do some extra cleaning work or losing TV privileges for a week.
Second point, 2054 days is a long time. Even for cumulative offenses. I have seen a handful of prisoners who had SHU sentences that long but they were in for serious offenses like assault. If Mualimm-ak spent five years in SHU like he claimed, he’s one of the longest serving prisoners in the entire state. And I find it impossible to believe he has no history of acts of violence - I’ve never seen anyone in SHU with a sentence that long who wasn’t confined for some violent charge.
Third point, solitary isn’t really solitary. If you picturing a dungeon, it’s not like that. Prisoners are in cells but it’s a row of cells. Prisoners are physically separated but not isolated and they can talk to each other. And every prisoner is going to be talking to guards and other employees all the time.
Fourth point, prisoners do not spend all the time in their cell - even if they want to, which some do. They have an hour of out-of-cell time every day.
Fifth point, lights are not kept on twenty-four hours a day. The hallway lights are kept on because guards are walking around and have to see. But cell lights are turned off at night and most hallway light are dimmed to half-power.
Sixth point, prisoners do not just get thrown in SHU. There are literally volumes of procedures on when and how you can place a prisoner in SHU. There’s a complete due process procedure with reviews and hearings and witnesses and documentation and taped records and appeals and sentencing guidelines.
Qadgop the Mercotan makes boatloads of excellent points.
and yet, I think the only reason we need to treat people humanely - all people, sick and well, free and in prison, mentally ill, everybody - is it is the right thing to do.
In perspective, the food through the slots is hardly the terror it was painted as being.
nm
I was also thinking about this. The writer probably forgot to mention the “Fuck You, Pig”, as well as whatever it was that he threw at the guard who saw the stamps, and told him of the regs.
I think that all **Quagdop **has really shown is that the mentally ill are poorly served in solitary, which makes it a mental health issue, nothing about solitary itself. Sure, solitary sucks. I would most definitely have sworn that it wasn’t a reward.
Also, the 23 hour a day thing shouldn’t be quite so traduced as it is. At one prison that I visited during a Corrections course, the jailer said that it was a safe haven for many of the prisoners, since they had no natural defenses against the predatory inmates.
None of this stuff seems particularly cruel. What, no tv, art supplies, etc…? Next thing, you’ll be saying that they don’t get to drive the kids to church.
Of course solitary and stuff is higher cost. It is more trouble to put up with trouble prisoners, and the costs are commensurate.
If you confine someone in a cell for long periods with literally nothing to do that is pretty bad. It’s basically sensory deprivation and endless boredom.
(I’m assuming prisoners in solitary for protective reasons rather than misbehaving are given things to do.)
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Date Posted: 08:19:52 01/27/13 Sun
Author: Mimi
Subject: CASH INTO YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT WITH JUST A FEW CLICKS
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Here is the current e-mail list:
STEP 3:
Now take the 1st email off of the list that you see above (from your saved file), Move the other addresses up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc.) and add YOUR email address (the one used for your PayPal account) as number 6 on the list. This is the only part of the document that should be changed.
** Make sure to use the email address you registered with PayPal **
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:
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HOW TO POST TO NEWS GROUPS?
Use Netscape or Internet Explorer and try searching for various newsgroups (on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions.)
Log on any search engine like yahoo.com, google.com, altavista.com, excite.com, etc. Search with the subject "millionaire message board; or; money making message board; or; employment message board; or making money discussions; or; money making forum; or; business message board; etc. You will find thousands & thousands of message boards.
Click on them one by one and you will find the option ‘post a new message’.
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You’re done with your first one! It only takes about 60 seconds to complete postings on message boards
after you catch on.
REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!! !!!GOOD LUCK!!
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Replies:
Re: CASH INTO YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT WITH JUST A FEW CLICKS – THABI LINDIWE MOHANOE (sad), 00:43:50 05/21/13 Tue
Re: CASH INTO YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT WITH JUST A FEW CLICKS – ALBIN, 00:15:54 06/27/13 Thu
Re: CASH INTO YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT WITH JUST A FEW CLICKS – jutt sohail (sad), 07:52:45 09/27/13 Fri
Re: CASH INTO YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT WITH JUST A FEW CLICKS – Lolla, 14:55:33 07/31/13 Wed
Re: CASH INTO YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT WITH JUST A FEW CLICKS – john (hi every one iam very happy), 09:35:04 09/21/13 Sat
hi – john (happy), 09:36:33 09/21/13 Sat
Re: hi – john (happy), 09:38:12 09/21/13 Sat
Re: CASH INTO YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT WITH JUST A FEW CLICKS – ello jackson, 14:45:59 09/24/13 Tue
Making MONEY MONEY – Ello jackson (happy), 01:20:37 09/25/13 Wed
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On the topic of the door, if the setup is anything like some units I’ve seen, the cell itself is often recessed deep unto the wall. Such cells usually have two doors, with a solid slab of metal with a tiny viewport forming the outer door, and a more traditional door made of bars or “chickenwire” with a slot for passing a meal tray. That probably explains the discrepancy.
It’s usually 23 hours a day in the cell, with one hour in what resembles a reinforced dog kennel as yard time. The 22 hour system might have an extra hour reserved for callouts or something.
I agree. But I disagree with the writer’s claim that living in SHU is inhumane treatment.
Don’t forget that prison is a society like any other. The majority of prisoners live in general population and that’s where the administration would prefer them to live. The people living in SHU are the people who were causing problems in prison. SHU is the prison within a prison.
And like on the street, you rarely get sent to prison for doing something directly to a cop. You do something to another civilian and the cop shows up to arrest you. In prison, most serious violations are perpetrated against other prisoners not guards. In most cases when a prisoner is taken off to SHU, the other prisoners are happy to see him go.
Just as the police lock up criminals for the sake of the other people living in the community, the guards lock up some prisoners for the sake of the other prisoners living in the prison.
The writer is not mentioning a lot of things. Prisoners in SHU have library privileges. They can listen to the radio. They can come out of their cell every day for rec. They have cell study programs. They’re allowed writing material. They can have their personal letters, photographs, and religious and legal material in their cell.
It’s not Club Med but it’s not the Hole either.
All the people who crow about how easy solitary would be, sure if it is just lack of socializing. But it isn’t it is lack of any stimulation at all, no books no nuttin’. Only a few weeks of that will have most people losing their sanity, maybe start playing with feces.