# Solution to designer drug problem **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975 "2012-02-06T13:54:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/1 "2012-02-06T13:54:23Z")
Couldn’t the law just be rewritten to state whatever is not on an “allowed” list is illegal, rather than assuming a substance is legal individually rendering substances illegal. One could use this same method in sports to get rid of cheating: if the substance is not on the okay list it is by default a banned substance. As new substances are created they can be brought up for legalization consideration. Too simple? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/2 "2012-02-06T14:35:32Z")
So if someone forgets to put Marmite on the list it would be illegal? Not that I mind, but maybe they’d forget something I do like. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/3 "2012-02-06T14:55:50Z")
It would mean that every time someone did a little experimental cooking they’d be committing a crime. Add a little too much paprika and you’ll change dinner chemically in a way that isn’t listed and make it Crime Food. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/4 "2012-02-06T15:01:17Z")
It would be a crime to distribute it, not a crime to be experimenting to create it. If you think you have something “good”, then go through the procedure to legalize it. If it’s a food or drug - then it goes through the usual FDA route. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/5 "2012-02-06T15:01:40Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Couldn’t the law just be rewritten to state whatever is not on an “allowed” list is illegal, rather than assuming a substance is legal individually rendering substances illegal. It certainly could, if our legislators were to pander even more to their basest authoritarian instincts than they naturally do anyway. I’m mostly a ‘rule-of-law’ kinda guy, but any move like this would, IMO, be an ethical justification for violent revolution. (sorry for the GD style answer, but taken as a GQ post, what more is there to reply than ‘yes, it could’?) ---
**Author:** ![KneeSid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dec6dc/32.png) [@KneeSid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneeSid)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/6 "2012-02-06T15:25:00Z")
But isn’t there some kind of naturalist medicine? I assume those that make herbal remedies whether effective or not would fall under this. For instance, I’ve heard take Echinacea tea for a cold. Would that now be a drug? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/7 "2012-02-06T17:19:30Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Couldn’t the law just be rewritten to state whatever is not on an “allowed” list is illegal, rather than assuming a substance is legal individually rendering substances illegal. > > One could use this same method in sports to get rid of cheating: if the substance is not on the okay list it is by default a banned substance. As new substances are created they can be brought up for legalization consideration. > > Too simple? Too simplistic. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/8 "2012-02-06T17:47:30Z")
tl;dr: Yeah, sorry, too simplistic. > [@KneeSid](#): > > But isn’t there some kind of naturalist medicine? **I assume those that make herbal remedies whether effective or not would fall under this.** For instance, I’ve heard take Echinacea tea for a cold. Would that now be a drug? (Emphasis is mine) The USA already went through this roughly 20 years ago. The FDA was considering making “supplements” adhere to the same regulations/standards/testing requirements as medicine, but the nutritional supplement industry (from major pharma makers of multi-vitamins to packagers of organic, fair-trade echinacea tissanes) fought the plan. The industry appealed to the general public to object to the move, claiming it would make supplements vastly more expensive as manufacturers would have to pass along to the consumer the cost of complying with the new regs. The FDA backed off, and now we have people complaining about the gubmint not doing anything about scam-herbalism. ::shrugs & rolls eyes:: The pendulum swings from side to side, and I don’t doubt regulation of “nutriceuticals” is coming soon. A quick Googling of the term, “naturalistic medicine” returns a lot of hits for sites of proponents of medical marijuana. :eek: I think the term you are thinking of is “alternative medicine”. So, I’ll assume you meant that term. Another problem would be getting the FDA, manufacturers, and the public to agree on a definition of “alternative medicine” (and “is that even a thing?”) before they/we can begin to work out what constitutes a “drug” for the purposes of the list you propose. Not saying it can’t be done, but until the general public shows a willingness to swallow increased costs along with their nostrums, manufacturers–large and small–are going to fight the imposition of any more regulations on their products. ---
**Author:** ![kaltkalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bb73d2/32.png) [@kaltkalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaltkalt)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/9 "2012-02-06T19:41:24Z")
Answer: Not in a free country that has any semblance of respect for liberty, due process, and personal freedom. But due to laws like the Analog Act and the “emergency scheduling” power of the DEA, the law basically works the way you describe it for all intents and purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/10 "2012-02-06T23:48:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > So if someone forgets to put Marmite on the list it would be illegal? Not that I mind, but maybe they’d forget something I do like. I got detained for over two hours by a US border guard in Fort Erie that claimed my Australian girlfriend’s vegemite smelled like ‘hydroponic marijuana’. Evidently some people think it is already illegal. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/11 "2012-02-07T00:12:46Z")
> [@Baffle](#): > > I got detained for over two hours by a US border guard in Fort Erie that claimed my Australian girlfriend’s vegemite smelled like ‘hydroponic marijuana’. Evidently some people think it is already illegal. While I would support a ban on the import of that vile substance, it’s not worth destroying our freedom with a blanket ban of all things not found on the approved list. I could not imagine how you’d want such GF until I saw a colleague’s stunning GF, and found out she was a fan of Marmite. I guess in some cases anything can be forgiven. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/12 "2012-02-07T03:25:19Z")
> [@Baffle](#): > > I got detained for over two hours by a US border guard in Fort Erie that claimed my Australian girlfriend’s vegemite smelled like ‘hydroponic marijuana’. 😃 And the Border inspector was FAMILIAR with “hydroponic marijuana”??? Wonder what he’s got set up in his back yard? ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/13 "2012-02-09T02:30:56Z")
Just make all drugs legal, now that’s simple… ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/14 "2012-02-09T02:40:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It would mean that every time someone did a little experimental cooking they’d be committing a crime. Add a little too much paprika and you’ll change dinner chemically in a way that isn’t listed and make it Crime Food. > [@BwanaBob](#): > > It would be a crime to distribute it, not a crime to be experimenting to create it. > If you think you have something “good”, then go through the procedure to legalize it. > If it’s a food or drug - then it goes through the usual FDA route. Think about how expensive drugs are…now think about how expensive that chicken salad sandwich is going to be after what the deli has to pay to push it through all the hoops the FDA will require in order for it to be legalized. What you’re proposing would likely either make everything extremely expensive OR raise taxes by a considerable amount. Either consumers or the public (which are one in the same) are going to have to foot the bill for this plan. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/15 "2012-02-09T13:50:34Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > tl;dr: Yeah, sorry, too simplistic. > > (Emphasis is mine) > > The USA already went through this roughly 20 years ago. The FDA was considering making “supplements” adhere to the same regulations/standards/testing requirements as medicine, but the nutritional supplement industry (from major pharma makers of multi-vitamins to packagers of organic, fair-trade echinacea tissanes) fought the plan. The industry appealed to the general public to object to the move, claiming it would make supplements vastly more expensive as manufacturers would have to pass along to the consumer the cost of complying with the new regs. The other problem was that a lot of these “herbal supplements” are food in a new package. Many people eat dandelion greens, for example. Dandelion greens are a good source of potassium, and they have a diuretic effect. So I could say, “If you’re retaining water around your period, eat some dandelion greens,” and that’s a food. Or I could say, “If you’re retaining water around your period, take these capsules of crushed up dandelion leaves.” More convenient, same food stuff. What many herbalists\* were afraid of (and still are) is not \*just \*the cost of widescale testing that the FDA requires, but that our entire philosophy of “food as medicine” would be at risk. That the dandelions growing in our front lawn would suddenly require a permit to grow and harvest and a Medical Dandelion card to legally consume. That’s where the craziness of DHEA really came from, and this law about not making medical claims about supplements. If I want to sell it as a food type product that may have nebulous health benefits, that’s okay. But if I tell you this dandelion leaf may cure your edema (“cure” and “edema” being the no-no words), then I’m in violation of medical claim labeling laws. I can tell you it will “support your water balance system” because that’s a bunch of meaningless twaddle without a medical claim. The meaningless twaddle on herbal products isn’t truly because we have our heads in the clouds, it’s to get around the labeling laws. \*There are lots and lots and lots of different kinds of herbalists. These would be the ones who use whole herbs and simple tinctures, not standardized extracts and pill forms, of course. The more you process a plant, the further from food and closer to pharmaceutical you get, and this argument loses steam. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/16 "2012-03-01T19:54:10Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > That’s where the craziness of DHEA really came from, and this law about not making medical claims about supplements. Can you elaborate on the “craziness” surrounding DHEA? I’ve been trying to find information on DHEA and not finding much that is valuable. ---
**Author:** ![curioushat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@curioushat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curioushat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/17 "2012-03-01T21:29:01Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Couldn’t the law just be rewritten to state whatever is not on an “allowed” list is illegal, rather than assuming a substance is legal individually rendering substances illegal. > > One could use this same method in sports to get rid of cheating: if the substance is not on the okay list it is by default a banned substance. As new substances are created they can be brought up for legalization consideration. > > Too simple? Absolutely not, completely not possible. First of all, that is completely contrary to American ideals (guilty unless proven innocent). It has no legal precedent. Drug chemists can come up with drugs faster than you think. While the DEA is working on banning the second tier of research chemical drugs, the drug using community is already using the third and fourth tier drugs. There is nothing the government can possibly do in this regard. Sorry, this isn;t the 1970s where the question was “should we do cocaine or heroin”. Now the question is “should we do methylone, mephedrone, methedrone…” ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/18 "2012-03-01T21:43:54Z")
> [@curioushat](#): > > While the DEA is working on banning the second tier of research chemical drugs, the drug using community is already using the third and fourth tier drugs. DEA doesn’t care about the drugs you use. It’s an _enforcement_ administration, not a legislative one. DEA agents don’t lose sleep at night wondering if you smoked a joint today. Legislators pass laws, the executive branch enforces them. Simple concept. ---
**Author:** ![curioushat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@curioushat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curioushat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/19 "2012-03-01T21:49:38Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > DEA doesn’t care about the drugs you use. It’s an _enforcement_ administration, not a legislative one. DEA agents don’t lose sleep at night wondering if you smoked a joint today. Legislators pass laws, the executive branch enforces them. Simple concept. You’re right. It’s not up to the DEA agents. It is up to the legislators. While the legislators are working on banning the 2nd tier of drugs , drug users are working on more advanced drugs. Trust me, I know. ---
**Author:** ![curioushat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@curioushat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curioushat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975/20 "2012-03-01T22:44:06Z")
> [@kaltkalt](#): > > Answer: Not in a free country that has any semblance of respect for liberty, due process, and personal freedom. But due to laws like the Analog Act and the “emergency scheduling” power of the DEA, the law basically works the way you describe it for all intents and purposes. No offense, but you must not be into drug culture at all, and you’re extremely wrong. The analog act only applies to cases where a specific chemical compound is taken to court and challenged, and ruled to be an analog. It means that most designer drugs are “potentially illegal”, but are “effectively legal” the way it stands. The emergency scheduling is a little bit more ridiculous [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-designer-drug-problem/611975.md?page=2)