# Solution to Ethics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 19, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610 "2017-07-19T00:29:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/61 "2017-07-19T16:15:26Z")
I would love to take a side in this debate…if someone could, in one sentence, tell me what the fuck is being debated. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/62 "2017-07-19T16:22:31Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > I went to hell for 400 billion years in a time dilated portal messing with this stuff; now I’m back. You just destroyed any credibility and authority you might have had with a single comment. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/63 "2017-07-19T16:31:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank you for your final post-most appreciated. I never believed in psychics before because I thought it was a bunch of hooey. But you just proved it was real. Still though, it would have been nice if the OP had come back to the thread to post some more. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/64 "2017-07-19T16:40:59Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > You just destroyed any credibility and authority you might have had with a single comment. …Did you even read the first post? (If not I wouldn’t blame you 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/65 "2017-07-19T17:36:41Z")
Forest, To help you out I’ll try to translate the word salad below into something a bit more clear. > [@Forest\_Green](#): > > It’s obvious that by definition, suicide is a decision to terminate life in context, by definition, it represents lack of purpose for living, for life in that context. Change the context, people decide to live, by definition, there is more purpose for life/living. > > That’s exceedingly clear. It’s the only possible metric from which to measure purpose of life. > > It is also obvious to the entire world, that the more difficult you make suicide to commit, that you have less purpose to represent for life in order to keep that person alive. > > Sometimes, all you have to do is make it so that they’ll have to make a mess, which is a rude suicide, in order to keep them alive, while you are able to represent less purpose for living. Therefor, inhumane suicide is a contradiction to all stated life value systems; placing accountability that is measurable for inherently representing purpose for life in order to keep people in a given context. Word count 161 [QUOTE= Edited version] People who commit suicide do so because they are not satisfied with their life. If we make it more difficult to commit suicide then there will exist people unsatisfied with their life who otherwise would have committed suicide. Even saying the suicide is messy may be sufficient to prevent suicide. Therefore there is a contradiction in claiming that suicide prevention is a good thing, since doing so makes people less satisfied with life. [/QUOTE] Word count 73 But more importantly, much, much clearer. Try using the above as a template to strive for clarity and simplicity through the rest of your argument. We can now argue whether this makes logical sense. While I agree with the first few statements, I think the final conclusion is erroneous. Having suicide no longer be an easy option may motivate people to improve their life rather than ending it. Also suicide not only affects those commit it but also those they associate with so even if a person would be “happier” dead, his/her death will have a strong negative impact on others happiness that causes it to be a net loss. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/66 "2017-07-19T17:54:50Z")
So…like…where’d you get the secret decoder ring? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/67 "2017-07-19T18:37:51Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > So…like…where’d you get the secret decoder ring? Close personal friend with Captain Midnight, I’ll betcha. ---
**Author:** ![Forest\_Green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Forest\_Green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forest_Green)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/68 "2017-07-19T19:51:27Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Forest, > > To help you out I’ll try to translate the word salad below into something a bit more clear. > > Word count 161 > > Word count 73 > But more importantly, much, much clearer. Try using the above as a template to strive for clarity and simplicity through the rest of your argument. > > We can now argue whether this makes logical sense. While I agree with the first few statements, I think the final conclusion is erroneous. Having suicide no longer be an easy option may motivate people to improve their life rather than ending it. Also suicide not only affects those commit it but also those they associate with so even if a person would be “happier” dead, his/her death will have a strong negative impact on others happiness that causes it to be a net loss. Ok, you caught me, I was reading this. In the absence of accountability to representing more purpose for people to stay here, society will not be able to gain any evidence of what does and does not actually, verifiably work to represent purpose as is axiomatically determined from offering humane suicide to everyone. There is zero accountability. The argument in favor of making people stay here, demonstrably against their will, is that those people will work to make the world better, instead of suiciding; actually, it just makes them slaves to abusers; like a possessive spouse who stalks and abuses over and over and over again; you are all psychopaths, there is zero doubt in my mind. I don’t even think this message makes a difference. Practically speaking, I have an entire cosmos to tweak. I do use referential language, you all, do not. You have decided to quit doing work. Let me explain this to you very simply. The water and air and habitat are being destroyed, wealth, so that you can abuse referential systems in a world of actual scarcity. The type of mind you are using to gain social prestige and accumulate resources is non-referrential, and it is destroying wealth massively. The only way out of this problem is to work on infinite resources, and to solve that problem, the types of minds that positively re-enforce your thought and speech patterns, cannot solve this problem; you don’t use referential minds, and referential minds are required to solve this. The people on this message board have decided to abuse wealth, and dismiss referential speech in order to assert dominance. That’s why I left. You can tell anyone that what they wrote is incomprehensible, word salad, unsupported, and “take your meds” … in fact anyone can do this, it’s so easy, that everyone, for the most part, does do this. When I say something like, existence exists forever because we exist now… that’s a referential proof, it’s irrefutable, it is wealth, you all decided to destroy it to send oxytocin to your brains, so people will think you are more confident. You really are the worst type of people. Furthermore… the internet is state controlled, has been almost since inception. Run by these forms of cognition at the administrative level. I know this for fact. Most people on earth refute everything that they say just by stating it in the context that they are in… millions of words in a lifetime that aren’t actual speech. They do it, to mate; to give the illusion that they have superpowers over reference, by refuting themselves, and still managing to be there. This is not speech, it is violence. Just like a knife can be used to cut celery, or to stab someone, speech can be referential or violent. You all chose violence. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/69 "2017-07-19T19:51:57Z")
How do you know it was 400 billion years? Were you able to charge your cell phone? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/70 "2017-07-19T19:53:56Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > Let me explain this to you very simply. That seems unlikely. \ Yup, didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Forest\_Green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Forest\_Green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forest_Green)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/71 "2017-07-19T19:57:02Z")
> [@Dr.Crap](#): > > How do you know it was 400 billion years? Were you able to charge your cell phone? It was my punishment for finding a loophole that sent everyone to hell for 400 billion years. I calculated the average life span, multiplied the amount of abuse a person perpetrated, calculated it as a ripple effect, multiplied it times billions of people, and sent everyone to hell. Turns out I missed a step. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/72 "2017-07-19T20:03:33Z")
Who enforced your punishment? ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/73 "2017-07-19T20:05:18Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > It was my punishment for finding a loophole that sent everyone to hell for 400 billion years. I calculated the average life span, multiplied the amount of abuse a person perpetrated, calculated it as a ripple effect, multiplied it times billions of people, and sent everyone to hell. Turns out I missed a step. Oh well. It is an common mistake to make. Moved the decimal too many places. You were probably in actual Hell for only 4 Billion years. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/74 "2017-07-19T20:06:00Z")
You PROMISED! > [@Forest\_Green](#): > > That’s the end of the thread for me. I won’t be back to look at replies. Translation seems to be an issue. I’ll just keep working at what I’m working at, then, if you want to understand me, you’ll have those tools. I have no more to do on message boards online… there’s no point. This was my last hurrah to that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Forest\_Green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Forest\_Green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forest_Green)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/75 "2017-07-19T20:16:04Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You PROMISED! Yup. I lied. I just didn’t expect someone to attempt to assert a referential reply, so I just assumed that there’d be nothing further to reply to. I was wrong, but, having made the point clearer about needing accountability to falsify what facilitates purpose greater than using humane suicide - your subsequent replies, may prove me a moron for lying and re-engaging. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/76 "2017-07-19T20:18:17Z")
What do you mean by "referential? " ---
**Author:** ![Forest\_Green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Forest\_Green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forest_Green)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/77 "2017-07-19T20:30:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What do you mean by "referential? " Something that does not refer is non-referential speech, what I mean by this, is the statement, “I don’t exist” is always non-referential, and non-referential speech is about destroying the wealth we use to communicate, it is violence, aggression, it is not speech. I tried to explain in my OP, that when people contradict themselves, all layers of encryption ultimately solve as “I don’t exist”, when decompiled and decrypted. Most people on earth, literally just say, “I don’t exist, and by the way, I don’t exist, and to clarify, I don’t exist, unless that confused you, I don’t exist.” etc… for their whole lives. People have become computers at calculating non referential speech to assert dominance, it gives them oxytocin and positive effects on dopamine receptors, so they just keep doing it. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/78 "2017-07-19T20:35:23Z")
Buck! Buck! Bring back the decoder ring! We need ya Buddy! ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/79 "2017-07-19T20:39:17Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > You can tell anyone that what they wrote is incomprehensible, word salad, unsupported, and “take your meds” Except, most of us believe your comments are incomprehensible, word salad, and unsupported. As for the last one, I won’t go there per moderator instructions. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/80 "2017-07-19T20:39:39Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > Something that does not refer is non-referential speech, what I mean by this, is the statement, “I don’t exist” is always non-referential, and non-referential speech is about destroying the wealth we use to communicate, it is violence, aggression, it is not speech. > > I tried to explain in my OP, that when people contradict themselves, all layers of encryption ultimately solve as “I don’t exist”, when decompiled and decrypted. > > Most people on earth, literally just say, “I don’t exist, and by the way, I don’t exist, and to clarify, I don’t exist, unless that confused you, I don’t exist.” etc… for their whole lives. > > People have become computers at calculating non referential speech to assert dominance, it gives them oxytocin and positive effects on dopamine receptors, so they just keep doing it. Here’s an experiment you should try: give your work to an acquaintance IRL and ask them to read it, right then and there. Pay attention to their eyes as they read. That should tell you a lot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610.md?page=5)