# Solution to Ethics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 19, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610 "2017-07-19T00:29:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/101 "2017-07-19T22:48:39Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > For a male, approach escalation is the equivalent of using a ruhfee. But if every single man on earth has used this approach escalation every single time in order to get sex, how can you even distinguish it from sex itself? I mean, if every act of sex between a man and a woman has been this form of rape, what difference does it make what methods the man uses to obtain it (as in, how is roofie’ing a woman any worse than any other form of sex) ? Rape is rape, right? ---
**Author:** ![Forest\_Green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Forest\_Green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forest_Green)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/102 "2017-07-19T22:52:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How does sexual dimophism factor into heterosexual relationships being inherently akin to rape? What does “partner stratification” mean? And can you define the term “partner stratification” without using the words “partner” or “stratification?” > > How do trans people fit into your schema? This evening, I’m going out to dinner with a lovely woman who was born male. I’ve previously been in a relationship with a really great dude who was born female. Prior to dating me, the woman I’m seeing tonight has dated other women. Subsequent to dating me, my ex-boyfriend has had a girlfriend. > > Which of these relationships were based on psychopathy? All of them? None of them? > > Again, “approach escalation means escalating the approach” isn’t a useful definition. Can you define this term in a way that isn’t entirely self-referential? Also, why is this something that only happens when men hit on women? Or is it that it’s only problematical when men hit on women? > > I’m a gamer. I play a lot of different types of games - video games, board games, card games, role playing games, and so forth. Some of my favorite games are viciously competitive. Some of them are completely non-competitive. Some of them are wholly co-operative. > > So, I don’t think what you wrote is “true by definition,” because - based on my personal experience - a person can enjoy competitive activities where there is a clear winner and loser, _and also_ enjoy co-operative activities where there are no losers, only winners, _and also_ enjoy non-competitive activities, where winning and losing aren’t relevant terms. > > I do not immediately see any reason why this attitude would necessarily be limited only to games, and not other areas of a person’s life, such as romantic or sexual interactions. Number of different sexual partners. High stratification refers to a phenomenon where 1 of 50 males receive, about 40 men out of every 1000, as can be observed in any school setting, where the sample is easier to make, receive about 80% of the actual variety of female sexual partners. This stratification (clustering discrepancies if you prefer) exists in all mammals at percentages around this area. The females, get 80% of their sexual variety from 2% of the male population; 1 out of 50 people doesn’t sound like much, but it offers vast experiences with different body types and personality types, relative to what most of the male population has to settle with; not much sexual variety. Gender dimorphism forces a situation where men approaching women causes relative discomfort opposed to women approaching men; the majority sample forces as dynamic where men approaching women is always an act of aggression, even assuming that there may be some women who don’t show any signs of discomfort; these women as an exception, even if they hypothetically exist, do not suddenly make it ok for men to make initial approaches, men aren’t mind readers, so they have to act on the majority, to not elicit aggression in the vast instances where it will necessarily elicit discomfort relative to men. Unless everyone is in heaven forever, there are winners and losers; and pleasure is derived from this. This is psychopathy. You are lying to me if you say that you play noncompetitive games, where you do not derive pleasure because someone failed. If you are truly interested in the winners, as you seek to profess, then you would want all players to be infinitely good at the game, the result being that the game is now impossible to play; at which point, having a psychopathic orientation to reality, you would cease to have fun, even though you’re no longer contradicting yourself. It is the self contradiction, which causes you joy. It follows from the premises and is necessarily true. ---
**Author:** ![Forest\_Green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Forest\_Green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forest_Green)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/103 "2017-07-19T23:03:58Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > But if every single man on earth has used this approach escalation every single time in order to get sex, how can you even distinguish it from sex itself? I mean, if every act of sex between a man and a woman has been this form of rape, what difference does it make what methods the man uses to obtain it (as in, how is roofie’ing a woman any worse than any other form of sex) ? Rape is rape, right? Exactly. What’s your point? It’s all different in kind, but it is all still a type of rape. Some might be easier on the woman than others… A guy doesn’t need to use any of this, and many men don’t; but if they don’t, they don’t get sex. That’s the price men pay for being good people. They’re not any less horny than the hypocrites, they’re just not hypocrites to get sex. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/104 "2017-07-19T23:12:00Z")
I’ve had a lot of luck baiting my penis and laying motionless on the sea floor. That’s not rape, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/105 "2017-07-19T23:13:59Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > Exactly. What’s your point? It’s all different in kind, but it is all still a type of rape. Some might be easier on the woman than others… A guy doesn’t need to use any of this, and many men don’t; but if they don’t, they don’t get sex. That’s the price men pay for being good people. They’re not any less horny than the hypocrites, they’re just not hypocrites to get sex. So is there any way, in your opinion, to obtain sex without rape? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/106 "2017-07-19T23:16:02Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > You are lying to me if you say that you play noncompetitive games, where you do not derive pleasure because someone failed. Do not accuse other posters of lying or imply that they are lying. This is strictly prohibited in the forum. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/107 "2017-07-19T23:24:07Z")
Your improper accusation of lying simply demonstrates either ignorance of a warped world view the ignores any fact that does not fit into your frame of reference. The are many non-competitive sports and an increasing number of non-competitive games (often used in team building programs or among children with anger issues). The notion that all games and sports are competitive is silly and not based on facts. ---
**Author:** ![Forest\_Green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Forest\_Green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forest_Green)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/108 "2017-07-19T23:24:12Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Do not accuse other posters of lying or imply that they are lying. This is strictly prohibited in the forum. > > [/Moderating] Oops… sorry, that’s a matter of intent. I meant to say that it’s a contradiction to play non-competitive games; as something without a winner or loser can’t even be defined as a game; that is a specific form of play, a scoreless activity that requires some element of skill. ---
**Author:** ![Forest\_Green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Forest\_Green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forest_Green)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/109 "2017-07-19T23:26:50Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > So is there any way, in your opinion, to obtain sex without rape? It hasn’t been done yet. The best people can really do in this type of world system, is at least try to translate wealth to the best of their ability - at least it’s moving consciousness in that direction; the current situation is absurd, compared to actually trying. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/110 "2017-07-19T23:27:14Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > For a male, approach escalation is the equivalent of using a ruhfee. What the heck is a ruhfee? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/111 "2017-07-19T23:28:08Z")
Golf can be played solo with the only intent to beat one’s own handicap. Rock climbing and mountain climbing do not need to be competitive. You are creating a definition of a word for your own purpose while ignoring reality. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/112 "2017-07-19T23:28:43Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > It hasn’t been done yet. The best people can really do in this type of world system, is at least try to translate wealth to the best of their ability - at least it’s moving consciousness in that direction; the current situation is absurd, compared to actually trying. So speaking ideally, in your opinion, should every single hetero male in the world be in prison? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/113 "2017-07-19T23:30:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What the heck is a ruhfee? Alternative, nonstandard, spelling for roofie. Rohypnol ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/114 "2017-07-19T23:30:52Z")
> [@Forest\_Green](#): > > Number of different sexual partners. High stratification refers to a phenomenon where 1 of 50 males receive, about 40 men out of every 1000, as can be observed in any school setting, where the sample is easier to make, receive about 80% of the actual variety of female sexual partners. This stratification (clustering discrepancies if you prefer) exists in all mammals at percentages around this area. The females, get 80% of their sexual variety from 2% of the male population; 1 out of 50 people doesn’t sound like much, but it offers vast experiences with different body types and personality types, relative to what most of the male population has to settle with; not much sexual variety. Where did you get these figures from? And why are they significant to the concept of heterosexual interactions being inherently akin to rape? Why do you think this dynamic is significantly different for gay people? > [@](#): > > Gender dimorphism forces a situation where men approaching women causes relative discomfort opposed to women approaching men; the majority sample forces as dynamic where men approaching women is always an act of aggression, even assuming that there may be some women who don’t show any signs of discomfort; these women as an exception, even if they hypothetically exist, do not suddenly make it ok for men to make initial approaches, men aren’t mind readers, so they have to act on the majority, to not elicit aggression in the vast instances where it will necessarily elicit discomfort relative to men. How does gender dipmorphism cause that discomfort? Why does dimorphism make any heterosexual interaction inherently aggressive? My last boyfriend was a short, skinny dude. The woman I dated before him had two inches and a good fifty pounds on me. Why were my interactions with a much smaller, frailer man not inherently aggressive, while my interactions with a woman who was larger than me were? How does the fact that both relationships were initiated by the other person factor into your analysis? > [@](#): > > Unless everyone is in heaven forever, there are winners and losers; and pleasure is derived from this. This is psychopathy. You are lying to me if you say that you play noncompetitive games, where you do not derive pleasure because someone failed. If you are truly interested in the winners, as you seek to profess, then you would want all players to be infinitely good at the game, the result being that the game is now impossible to play; at which point, having a psychopathic orientation to reality, you would cease to have fun, even though you’re no longer contradicting yourself. It is the self contradiction, which causes you joy. It follows from the premises and is necessarily true. It is interesting that your response to data that doesn’t fit your thesis is to immediately accuse the person providing that data of lying. It makes me question how much other data you’ve rejected because it doesn’t fit your preconceptions. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/115 "2017-07-19T23:35:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Alternative, nonstandard, spelling for roofie. Rohypnol Huh. I used his spelling, and didn’t get a single hit on Google. ---
**Author:** ![Forest\_Green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Forest\_Green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forest_Green)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/116 "2017-07-19T23:37:20Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > So speaking ideally, in your opinion, should every single hetero male in the world be in prison? They need to take responsibility; stop using euphoric recall for ill gotten gains; that’s a very harsh punishment! I had to go through it myself; it’s brutal. It’s like being punished by the whole world at once if you do it right. Stop acting out as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/117 "2017-07-19T23:40:12Z")
I don’t think that words mean what the OP thinks they mean. ---
**Author:** ![Forest\_Green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Forest\_Green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forest_Green)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/118 "2017-07-19T23:40:28Z")
Miller, I was projecting myself onto you. I would have been lying to call something a non-competitive game, because anything without a winner or loser cannot be defined as a game; it would be scoreless play. It was so obvious to me, that I projected that if I was you, I’d have been lying. It was my mistake to project your intent like that. Tomanddeb were correct. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/119 "2017-07-19T23:40:53Z")
Forest Green, have I got a site for you. You will certainly find that cubic thinking will extend your theories. There’s a lot of similarities. Let me know what you think. [http://timecube.2enp.com/](http://timecube.2enp.com/) ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610/120 "2017-07-19T23:45:57Z")
Here’s [another one](http://www.hamsterdance.com/classics/originaldance.htm) you might be able to solve ethics at. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-ethics/791610.md?page=7)