# Solution to USA Mass shootings **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391 "2019-09-17T17:44:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/201 "2019-09-22T22:55:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They ones I cited. Where are your cites that say my cites are wrong? > > Yes, the “many problems”, pointed out by _laymen_. Many of the studies give the University where the author is a professor, others are published in a journal, which of course accepts corrections, etc from _qualified experts._ Why dont \*you \*write them and point out their errors?:rolleyes: Ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease… > > _“claiming that those who think differently than you somehow don’t care if people are killed.”_ You- and many other gun grabbers here- have said that exact same thing about people who support the Constitution. That since we support the Constitution we dont care if kids are killed in the schools, etc. :rolleyes: Maybe a reading of Matthew 7:5 might help you see more clearly. Earlier I said no more personal shots of any sort. Was I somehow unclear? Don’t personalize your arguments. Certainly don’t do it with pejorative terms. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/202 "2019-09-23T00:06:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Perhaps you, as a layman, can write the experts who wrote those journals and articles and point out that obvious error to them? I didn’t write them. I am only a expert in things like Money-laundering, etc. The cites I looked at suggest that media don’t concentrate on the shooter. I’m fine with those guidelines - voluntary guidelines. We’re talking about making it illegal to name the shooter here. I couldn’t find any cites which propose this, or which deal with the problem of the name getting out. Have any? > [@](#): > > Let’s see what the ACLU and courts say. I have some doubts but of course the NRA is biased. [The ACLU does have a position.](https://www.aclu.org/blog/mobilization/aclus-position-gun-control) > [@](#): > > So-called “red flag laws,” which provide for protective orders to remove guns from people who pose a significant risk to themselves or others, can also be a reasonable way to further public safety. To be constitutional, however, they must at a minimum have clear, nondiscriminatory criteria for defining persons as dangerous and a fair process for those affected to object and be heard by a court. Sounds good to me. Note that it implies the court hearing is after, not before. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/203 "2019-09-23T03:57:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The cites I looked at suggest that media don’t concentrate on the shooter. I’m fine with those guidelines - voluntary guidelines. We’re talking about making it illegal to name the shooter here. I couldn’t find any cites which propose this, or which deal with the problem of the name getting out. Have any? > [The ACLU does have a position.](https://www.aclu.org/blog/mobilization/aclus-position-gun-control) > Sounds good to me. Note that it implies the court hearing is after, not before. Not “illegal” per se, a FCC guidance on what not to do. No jail time, but perhaps a fine. Only for broadcast media. That sounds good, but I can’t read into that what you think it implies. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/204 "2019-09-23T04:16:25Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Earlier I said no more personal shots of any sort. Was I somehow unclear? Don’t personalize your arguments. Certainly don’t do it with pejorative terms. That was a little over the line, i admit, my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/205 "2019-09-23T18:46:29Z")
On what grounds do you dismiss the observations documented in your very own cites, quoted by multiple posters in this thread, that the relative ease of access and abundance of guns in American society is an unequivocal contributing factor in the rate of mass murder, while the media influence on same remains a non-quantified (speculative) factor that is “out of scope” in some studies and “requires further study” in others? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/206 "2019-09-23T19:01:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > On what grounds do you dismiss the observations documented in your very own cites, quoted by multiple posters in this thread, that the relative ease of access and abundance of guns in American society is an unequivocal contributing factor in the rate of mass murder, while the media influence on same remains a non-quantified (speculative) factor that is “out of scope” in some studies and “requires further study” in others? I quote myself: Actually I didnt say that I said " _Of course, access to guns is part of the problem, I never said otherwise. Except that we have had access to guns (and guns with plenty of “firepower” )here in the USA for well over over a century, but the mass shootings have only been a significant issue in the last 20, with the rise of the media. Hell, you could buy Tommyguns in the 1920’s, at hardware store, with no checks at all. But except for criminals using them on each other, few of what the experts would call a “mass shooting” until 2020. So sure, guns are #4 in a list of 4, sure. So the rare once a decade or once a year mass shooting happened- but why NOW the huge increase? It’s not the guns, it has to be the media- and science has proven it._ ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/207 "2019-09-23T19:51:28Z")
You’re quoting yourself because none of your cites say that guns aren’t the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/208 "2019-09-23T20:00:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > \*Of course, access to guns is part of the problem, I never said otherwise. Except that we have had access to guns (and guns with plenty of “firepower” )here in the USA for well over over a century, but the mass shootings have only been a significant issue in the last 20, with the rise of the media. \* But as I pointed out earlier, according to [Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/), there were more mass shootings from 1990-1999 than from 2000-2009. Mass shootings were a significant issue before 2000, which is what you are claiming. Also, according to this database, the frequency of mass shootings has greatly increased since 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/209 "2019-09-23T20:44:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not “illegal” per se, a FCC guidance on what not to do. No jail time, but perhaps a fine. Only for broadcast media. > > That sounds good, but I can’t read into that what you think it implies. Since broadcast media is considered to go over publicly owned airwaves, I think it is possible that restrictions would be legal. I could be wrong. However, do you seriously believe that even one shooter would consider being on CNN, Fox and MSNBC inadequate? I’m 67 and I’m too young to watch network news anymore. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/210 "2019-09-23T20:52:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I quote myself: > Actually I didnt say that I said " > _Of course, access to guns is part of the problem, I never said otherwise. Except that we have had access to guns (and guns with plenty of “firepower” )here in the USA for well over over a century, but the mass shootings have only been a significant issue in the last 20, with the rise of the media. Hell, you could buy Tommyguns in the 1920’s, at hardware store, with no checks at all. But except for criminals using them on each other, few of what the experts would call a “mass shooting” until 2020. So sure, guns are #4 in a list of 4, sure. So the rare once a decade or once a year mass shooting happened- but why NOW the huge increase? It’s not the guns, it has to be the media- and science has proven it._ There is a giant pile of dynamite. With the addition of a match, it explodes. You’re arguing that the dynamite can be disregarded as a part of the problem. This is, of course, nonsense. You’re also arguing that we should restrict matches, which would be reasonable except I don’t think it’s possible to actually accomplish. Specifically I think you’re arguing that we should shave a tiny amount of sawdust off the back end of the matches, for all the good concealing the names will do. I agree with the research that says that the rise of the internet and social media was an ingredient in the increase in mass shootings, just as it was also an ingredient in the radicalizing of the political right and the polarization of everybody. However I don’t agree that the _one and only_ part of the rise of internet media that influenced shooters was that their literal names were showing up on CNN. And even if that _was_ a significant contributing factor, I don’t think that you can roll those effects back by taking the names off of CNN now - news has gotten out that murdering makes you world-famous, and famous is famous even if you’re known as “the columbine shooter” instead of “Eric”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/211 "2019-09-23T21:22:12Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > However I don’t agree that the _one and only_ part of the rise of internet media that influenced shooters was that their literal names were showing up on CNN. And even if that _was_ a significant contributing factor, I don’t think that you can roll those effects back by taking the names off of CNN now - news has gotten out that murdering makes you world-famous, and famous is famous even if you’re known as “the columbine shooter” instead of “Eric”. His proposal is that the names be restricted from _broadcast_ media, which I’m sure would make all the other types of media jump for joy as they proudly proclaim that they are “The Place To Get The Uncensored Truth!”. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/212 "2019-09-23T21:38:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > His proposal is that the names be restricted from _broadcast_ media, which I’m sure would make all the other types of media jump for joy as they proudly proclaim that they are “The Place To Get The Uncensored Truth!”. Yeah, it’s almost as if he’s _trying_ to achieve no effect whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/213 "2019-09-23T21:40:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I quote myself: > > It’s not the guns, it has to be the media- and science has proven it.\* I’m sure that’s the conclusion you want to draw, but the very same studies YOU cited don’t draw that conclusion. Not a single one concludes anything like, ‘It has to be the media’. They all suggest that media plays a role. How much of a role remains uncertain. Because the measure of how much of an influence was “not in scope” or inconclusive. That’s what the science says. Not what you claim it says. Do you dispute that your conclusions are in contrast to the very science you cite? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/214 "2019-09-23T21:43:35Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Yeah, it’s almost as if he’s _trying_ to achieve no effect whatsoever. Yeah-I noticed that right off the bat, too. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/215 "2019-09-23T22:46:54Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > But as I pointed out earlier, according to [Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/), there were more mass shootings from 1990-1999 than from 2000-2009. > > Mass shootings were a significant issue before 2000, which is what you are claiming. Also, according to this database, the frequency of mass shootings has greatly increased since 2012. As i explained before, 2000 is just a easy to remember cut off date. Read the cites, and my posts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/216 "2019-09-23T22:48:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Since broadcast media is considered to go over publicly owned airwaves, I think it is possible that restrictions would be legal. I could be wrong. However, do you seriously believe that even one shooter would consider being on CNN, Fox and MSNBC inadequate? I’m 67 and I’m too young to watch network news anymore. Ask the scientists. Apparently you as a layman, somehow found the loophole that a bunch of respected scientists and their reviewers have missed. Maybe a Nobel prize is on your way. Or maybe- you are wrong and the scientists are right.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/217 "2019-09-23T22:50:51Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You’re arguing that the dynamite can be disregarded as a part of the problem. This is, of course, nonsense. > > You’re also arguing that we should restrict matches, which would be reasonable except I don’t think it’s possible to actually accomplish. Specifically I think you’re arguing that we should shave a tiny amount of sawdust off the back end of the matches, for all the good concealing the names will do. > > I agree with the research that says that the rise of the internet and social media was an ingredient in the increase in mass shootings, just as it was also an ingredient in the radicalizing of the political right and the polarization of everybody. However I don’t agree that the _one and only_ part of the rise of internet media that influenced shooters was that their literal names were showing up on CNN. … I never mentioned dynamite, what are you talking about? And _ **I** _ am not arguing anything,\* scientists\* are. Argue with them. Ask the scientists. Apparently you as a layman, somehow found the loophole that a bunch of respected scientists and their reviewers have missed. Maybe a Nobel prize is on your way. Or maybe- you are wrong and the scientists are right. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/218 "2019-09-23T22:52:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > His proposal is that the names be restricted from _broadcast_ m… \*\* _I_\*\* am not proposing anything, _scientists_ are. Argue with them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/219 "2019-09-23T22:53:16Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m sure that’s the conclusion you want to draw, but the very same studies YOU cited don’t draw that conclusion. … No, that’s not my conclusion, you took that out of context. Please put it back. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/220 "2019-09-23T23:06:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > \*\* _I_\*\* am not proposing anything, _scientists_ are. Argue with them. _They_ have not banded together to propose such a ban over broadcast networks, and _they_ have no made such a proposal here-_you_ have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391.md?page=12)