# Solution to USA Mass shootings **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391 "2019-09-17T17:44:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/21 "2019-09-17T20:24:08Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > … Second, it simply cannot be the case that it’s all the glorification causing the uptick, since other countries with free press, but more restrictive gun laws, don’t have this problem. … Which other countries are you referring to? Places like New Zealand? France? Norway? Germany? They all have more restrictive gun laws than us, and they “have this problem” too. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/22 "2019-09-17T20:33:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Which other countries are you referring to? Places like New Zealand? France? Norway? Germany? They all have more restrictive gun laws than us, and they “have this problem” too. Which one of those countries have had 300 mass shootings this year? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/23 "2019-09-17T20:34:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Which other countries are you referring to? Places like New Zealand? France? Norway? Germany? They all have more restrictive gun laws than us, and they “have this problem” too. You’re right. Nothing can be done. They did nothing. Let’s do nothing too. And for god’s sake, let’s also stop reporting it and talking about it. It’s such a buzz kill. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/24 "2019-09-17T20:36:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Which other countries are you referring to? Places like New Zealand? France? Norway? Germany? They all have more restrictive gun laws than us, and they “have this problem” too. It is true that other countries “have this problem too.” But not to the same extent the US does. Finland and Norway came close in per capita deaths in mass shootings a few years back, but that was mostly due to a one or two incidents and the fact that they are a much smaller countries. Statistics, variation and all that. This video, from Vox, stacks up the US and other developed countries on a number of gun-related statistics. It’s clear to me that the US is, indeed, and outlier when it comes to gun violence in the developed world: [The state of gun violence in the US, explained in 18 charts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX4qUsgHa4Y) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/25 "2019-09-17T21:30:11Z")
I’d be okay with all mass-shooting suspects not having their real names reported, referenced instead by nicknames like “Stinky McBedwetter”. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/26 "2019-09-17T21:31:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Which other countries are you referring to? Places like New Zealand? France? Norway? Germany? They all have more restrictive gun laws than us, and they “have this problem” too. Right, in the same sense that if they have a cold and we have cancer, we’re both sick. Here: > **[Gun violence in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Gun-related_death_rates_in_high-income_countries,_2010.svg)** > > Gun violence is a term of political, economic and sociological interest referring to the tens of thousands of annual firearms-related deaths and injuries occurring in the United States. In 2022, up to 100 daily fatalities and hundreds of daily injuries were attributable to gun violence in the United States. In 2018, the most recent year for which data are available, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics reported 38,390 deaths by firearm Acc... That’s as-of 2010. The red bars are gun homicides. The blue bars are suicides. We lead in both! We’re number 1! USA! USA! I haven’t looked for mass shootings, but then, I don’t think mass shootings are really a problem statistically speaking. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/27 "2019-09-17T21:59:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Be that as it may, it’s giving killers exactly what they want. > > Suppose you have an aggrieved white supremacist who feels that blacks are the cause of all his problems. He knows for a fact that if he shoots up a black wedding or block party or whatever, and kills dozens, and first publishes a manifesto, that the following things will happen: > > His name and photo will be emblazoned everywhere. The media will report in-depth on his manifesto, poring over every single one of his paragraphs with a fine comb. He will become a household name, Googling him will get millions of hits, the President of the United States will be talking about him in a national address, every politician will be talking about him, all of his grievances will be carefully read, absorbed, thought about and pondered by numerous readers, thousands of people will be converted to his way of thinking, he will get thousands of fans on the Internet, there will be T-shirts with his face on them, there will be a Wikipedia page about him, possibly entire books will be written about him, maybe even a movie made one day about his shooting…how can that be anything other than the most potent catnip to such a KKK-er? > The only thing he’d lament while alive would be that he wouldn’t be around to see it for himself. (Unless he plans to be taken alive by police instead of shooting himself in the head) When I become god emperor of the world able to control giant corporations and social media alike through sheer terror, I will cause all reporting of mass shooters to refrain from giving the name of the shooter or their image, or detailing the contents of any manifestos. They will simply make an honest report not unlike the following: “A white male, seemingly unable to hold down a job and reportedly riddled with mental problems, used X guns to murder Y innocent people at Z location. He died at the scene. The guns were apparently purchased legally according to the laws in his area. Investigation into his motives indicated that he was motivated by racism and xenophobia. Stay tuned for a segment of clips from politicians who support free access to guns and who promote racism and xenophobia, giving reactions that indicate no interest whatsoever in doing anything about the situation.” ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/28 "2019-09-17T22:01:55Z")
I feel like the whole “Media blasting the shooter’s name” is going away. The Columbine shooters are well known. How many people know the El Paso shooter’s name off hand? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/29 "2019-09-17T22:05:44Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I feel like the whole “Media blasting the shooter’s name” is going away. The Columbine shooters are well known. How many people know the El Paso shooter’s name off hand? I think it’s more that people don’t _care_. I mean, we care that the shootings are happening, but which particular dipshit was pulling the trigger is only relevant in determining which political and social groupings are spawning the mass shooters, so we can impotently shake our fists at them. Their name though doesn’t matter - they’re not novel or unique or anything anyway. None of which changes the fact that they’ll still be famous and their deeds will be known. They’ll have made an impact on the world! (More of one than I will, at any rate.) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/30 "2019-09-18T00:04:30Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I feel like the whole “Media blasting the shooter’s name” is going away. The Columbine shooters are well known. How many people know the El Paso shooter’s name off hand? I heard it was Stinky McBedwetter. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/31 "2019-09-18T00:53:58Z")
I’m not for anything that would limit the 1st amendment but publicizing killers who kill for publicity does kind of turn the media into accessories after the fact. This is especially true of politically based killers like Stinky McBedwetter and Billy Bob Sheepfucker. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/32 "2019-09-18T01:56:38Z")
Perhaps like the weather service uses for hurricanes, we could compile an alphabetical list of derisive shooter nicknames. Of course given the rate of mass shootings in the U.S., it’s likely to cycle through the alphabet a dozen times a year. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/33 "2019-09-18T04:19:17Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The existence of social media would completely undercut this approach. It would be absolutely ineffective; the information would still get out, and the shooters would still get all the fame they desire. > > Based on the timing of things, I have a suspicious that the rise of shootings was largely caused by in social media and the corresponding ‘validation through fleeting attention’ that came with it. Social media can also be controlled. It would be more difficult, but if broadcast media and the police dont divulge the names, it wont be until the news is stale the FB, etc will get ahold of it. You may have a point. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/34 "2019-09-18T04:22:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Every non-SDMB link in the OP is broken for me, and it makes me laugh that the OP suggests that the First Amendment needs to be further limited to suit his near-unlimited view of the Second Amendment. > > Are there any other laws that should be offered up as ritual sacrifices to guns? Well, see, that sometimes happens when you cut and paste, so I provided you with a link to my original post. I dont have a “near-unlimited view of the Second Amendment” My view pretty much matches the Supreme Courts, and here in the SDMB, I have suggested several gun control methods. So, you’d rather just ban guns, instead of actually doing something about the mass shootings? Because it aint the guns. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/35 "2019-09-18T04:25:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you know what “broadcast media” is and how much of the media market it controls? By the way-from what article did you get all those broken links? Well, see, that sometimes happens when you cut and paste, so I provided you with a link to my original post. Apparently you havent figured that out. Not to mention I have posted them several times, but I will bet you never bothered to read them, I mean, why not get in there with the Climate change deniers, and ignore the science? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/36 "2019-09-18T04:28:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So we must act on our suspicions and deprive potential shooters of one possible motivating factor by shitting on the First Amendment and ignore the real issue, the availability of guns, by hiding behind the skirt of the Second Half Of The Second Amendment. You want to ignore the science then? The real is is the Media. As **begbert** and the scientists sez, before 2000 there were LOTS of guns, but mass and school shootings were uncommon. Then the 24/7365 media started and mass shootings went way up. It’s science. Not your emotions. And we already have controls on the Broadcast media- perfectly within the Constitution. They cant say or show many things. No 1st Ad issues. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/37 "2019-09-18T04:41:16Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > **DrDeth** , I just want to clarify, do you feel mass shootings uniquely require a solution, where other forms of gun violence don’t? As in, mass shootings are bad, but other shootings aren’t? > > Because it seems to me that probably THE BEST way to solve the problem of mass shootings is to solve the wider problem of shootings in general. With that said, while I can see how your idea of controlling the media narrative might well result in some reduction in mass/spree-killings by people who want to make statement, it would seem to have significant drawbacks. The two foremost being (as others have noted) the impracticality of so completely controlling the narrative when there are so many outlets available for information (as long as there is a market for details, details WILL get out: nature finds a way), and the whole thing about the first amendment. Nope, all murders are bad (some shootings, like when the police down a killer in the middle of a felony are OK). But it’s the Mass Shootings which generate media attention and calls for Gun control- even tho gun control wont help. Now sure, some mild gun control, like the ones legal under the Constitution, such as better background checks and good red flag laws (with due process) can help, and the background checks might reduce the violent crime rate a bit, reducing gun murders. I dont expect any big decrease, but even if we had a 10% decrease that would be worthwhile, no? Here I disagree. The motives are hugely different, and the getting hold of guns is a different issue. Mass shooting : Motives- fame, vengeance, suicide. Guns- before the shooter is likely a law abiding citizen, able to pass any background check with ease- other than red flag laws, no background check will stop this type of killer from getting his guns. AR15 and AK 47 _rifles_ are the guns of choice. Violent crime: Motives- money, anger, vengeance. No desire to see ones name in headlines in fact one doesnt want ones name known at all (except maybe to ones gang members). Guns- the criminal likely has a record and can’t pass a background check, and thus must get their guns illegally. Handguns are the guns of choice, almost never rifles. Entirely different. Now yes, there are some practicality issues, I agree. But hasnt the “voluntary” not listing of rape victims name thing worked pretty well? I dont see why the “voluntary” not listing of mass shootists names might not work as well. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/38 "2019-09-18T04:55:40Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > First, assuming for argument’s sake the OP is correct, **Ravenman** has the right question – why impinge on the First Amendment because the Second Amendment is causing problems? > > Second, it simply cannot be the case that it’s all the glorification causing the uptick, since other countries with free press, but more restrictive gun laws, don’t have this problem. > … > Fourth, while the US is an outlier in terms of mass shootings, it’s also very much an outlier in terms of overall shootings. … > > So, don’t curtail First Amendment rights in order to try and solve a statistical non-issue like mass shootings. Rather, find ways to get guns away from people likely to use them on other people (fix the general shootings issue) and mass shootings will likely decline as well. Well, becuase the 2nd isnt really causing the problem. They do, but they didnt have the mass availability of guns (yes, guns are a factor, no one denies that) nor do they have the media like we have, in some nations the names of killers arent broadcast. But few nations have the 24.7/265 newscycle and etc liek we have. Actually no. The USA is right smack dab in the middle of ALL nations in terms of murder rate. And, for some reason, perhaps cultural, \*almost \*ALL of "The Americas’ have a higher murder rate than western europe. (Canada being the main exception, maybe they are too darn polite to kill others). Of the fifty nations in "The Americas’- the USA ranks 45th in murder rate. > **[List of countries by intentional homicide rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)** > > The list of countries by UNODC homicide rate is typically expressed in units of deaths per 100,000 individuals per year. A homicide rate of 30 (out of 100,000) corresponds to 0.03% of the population dying by homicide. The reliability of underlying national murder rate data may vary. Only UNODC-vetted data is used in the main table below. In some cases, it may not be as up to date as other sources. See further down as to why its data is used over other sources. > Homicide rates may be under-report... I explain in the post above why mass shooting are a entirely different issue than violent crime in general. Sociologists and criminologists agree. I have not made any suggestion to “curtail First Amendment rights”. Broadcast media is already under control by the FCC, they have banned certain advertising (tobacco , etc) , certain words, nudity, sex, and the networks must have somewhat "balanced " support for candidates. Not to mention media already had it’s arms twisted to “voluntarily” not name rape victims, and went along with it. \*\*So, nothing I propose is a curtailment of 1st Ad rights in any way shape or form. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/39 "2019-09-18T05:04:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > … > > Number 3 touches on how assailants seek validation from wherever they can, as opposed to saying that the media is being reckless in letting people know about murders. > > More importantly, note number 4 – that’s about access to guns, which completely destroys your underlying point that guns have nothing to do with mass shootings (an absurdity on its face, of course). I notice you ignored my other three cites. Of course, access to guns is part of the problem, I never said otherwise. Except that we have had access to guns (and guns with plenty of “firepower” )here in the USA for well over over a century, but the mass shootings have only been a significant issue in the last 20, with the rise of the media. Hell, you could buy Tommyguns in the 1920’s, at hardware store, with no checks at all. But except for criminals using them on each other, few of what the experts would call a “mass shooting” until 2020. So sure, guns are #4 in a list of 4, sure. So the rare once a decade or once a year mass shooting happened- but why NOW the huge increase? \*\*It’s not the guns, it has to be the media- and science has proven it. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/40 "2019-09-18T05:07:04Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > How could the media **not** report those things?! They’re all newsworthy points – the media wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t report them. When a media outlet has a policy not to report something about a crime, it is typically to protect the victims, i.e., rape and molestation victims – the public doesn’t need to know their names. Because they care about being accomplices to mass murder? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391.md?page=3)