# Solution to USA Mass shootings **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391 "2019-09-17T17:44:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/61 "2019-09-18T17:50:22Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Still waiting on that detailed plan of how you think every media outlet can be banned from reporting on mass shootings and have our country remain a democracy. Free societies do not dictate what the media must or must not report. North Korea does that. I already told you. Broadcast media is already constrained by the FCC, perfectly within the limits of the 1st Ad, and has been so since the 1950’s and before. Did we turn into North Korea when the FCC was established? Was there a great scream about 1st Ad violations when the media “voluntarily” agreed to not name victims? And pretty much every “free society” has limits on what can be published. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/62 "2019-09-18T17:53:30Z")
Why do you think the media reports on mass shootings? Do you also think its wrong to report on hurricanes or other natural disasters? Do you think its wrong to report when famous people die? What newsworthy events, in your mind, are ok to report about and which ones should be banned? Who would do the banning? How would it be enforced on all media outlets? You need to flesh this out. You keep hammering on the media, the media, the media, but what I fail to see is any practical way to control all of the media without turning us into a dictatorship. What if the next president decides that right wing news is a threat to America, can they just ban Fox News, Breitbart etc? Think this through and flesh out your ideas, you’ve identified what you view is the problem, but there is no actual solution to that problem being presented here. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/63 "2019-09-18T17:54:06Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m inclined to think that you’re just google barfing “blame media + mass shootings”. > > ETA: I looked at your link to the Google books page. I apologize, the search was for “media mass shootings”. It shows that in the search box on the right side of the page. > > … So? You mean I know how to use Search on Google? Horrors!:rolleyes: > **[Mass Shootings in America Are Spreading Like a Disease](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/11/americas-mass-shooting-epidemic-contagious/545078/)** > > If it seems like the shootings are becoming more frequent, it might be because mass murder can catch on like an epidemic. > **['Media contagion' is factor in mass shootings, study says](https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-contagion)** > > People who commit mass shootings in America tend to share three traits: rampant depression, social isolation and pathological narcissism. [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0002764217730854](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0002764217730854) _Prior research has shown that many mass shooters have explicitly admitted they want fame and have directly reached out to media organizations to get it. These fame-seeking offenders are particularly dangerous because they kill and wound significantly more victims than other active shooters, they often compete for attention by attempting to maximize victim fatalities, and they can inspire contagion and copycat effects. However, if the media changes how they cover mass shooters, they may be able to deny many offenders the attention they seek and deter some future perpetrators from attacking. We propose that media organizations should no longer publish the names or photos of mass shooters (except during ongoing searches for escaped suspects), but report everything else about these crimes in as much detail as desired. In this article, we (1) review the consequences of media coverage of mass shooters, (2) outline our proposal, (3) show that its implementation is realistic and has precedent, (4) discuss anticipated challenges, and (5) recommend future steps for consensus building and implementation._ [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0002764217739660](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0002764217739660) Oh, and where are\* your\* cites that the media isnt having a effect? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/64 "2019-09-18T17:54:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I already told you. Broadcast media is already constrained by the FCC, perfectly within the limits of the 1st Ad, and has been so since the 1950’s and before. Did we turn into North Korea when the FCC was established? Was there a great scream about 1st Ad violations when the media “voluntarily” agreed to not name victims? > > And pretty much every “free society” has limits on what can be published. Cool then when the next Democratic president is in office he or she should label Fox News as enemy of the people and force them off the air with this FCC power you are talking about. Sound like the result you want? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/65 "2019-09-18T17:56:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I already told you. Broadcast media is already constrained by the FCC, perfectly within the limits of the 1st Ad, and has been so since the 1950’s and before. Did we turn into North Korea when the FCC was established? Was there a great scream about 1st Ad violations when the media “voluntarily” agreed to not name victims? > > And pretty much every “free society” has limits on what can be published. Let’s try a little exercise called: Premeditatio Malorum _I wave my magic gun and your wish is granted - mass shooting reporting is muzzled._ (pun intended) Unfortunately, the rate of mass shootings and resulting victims does not change as expected. What went wrong? Who/What do you blame? What do you propose be done about it? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/66 "2019-09-18T17:56:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oh, and where are\* your\* cites that the media isnt having a effect? The problem is that this is not what I’m arguing. See my cite for the NIJ-funded study. You are going in a different direction, in that you’re saying it is NOT the guns. Let me make an analogy: let’s say a researcher does a study on whether there’s a link between asbestos and lung cancer. The fact that a study is published finding a link between those two, does not mean that smoking does not cause lung cancer. This is where you are going wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/67 "2019-09-18T17:57:51Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Why do you think the media reports on mass shootings? Do you also think its wrong to report on hurricanes or other natural disasters? Do you think its wrong to report when famous people die? What newsworthy events, in your mind, are ok to report about and which ones should be banned? Who would do the banning? How would it be enforced on all media outlets? > … I dont think that hurricanes listen to the news and decide that they can beat the last hurricanes death toll. I dont wish to stop the reporting of ANY newsworthy events. Just dont name the killer. Just like these scientist propose: [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0002764217730854](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0002764217730854) _Don’t Name Them, Don’t Show Them, But Report Everything Else: A Pragmatic Proposal for Denying Mass Killers the Attention They Seek and Deterring Future Offenders_ ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/68 "2019-09-18T17:59:37Z")
I have no idea the names of the last several mass killers. So problem solved then? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/69 "2019-09-18T18:00:30Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Cool then when the next Democratic president is in office he or she should label Fox News as enemy of the people and force them off the air with this FCC power you are talking about. Sound like the result you want? So, the fact that the FCC already bans swear words, nudity, tobacco ads and such on broadcast TV, and has done so for decades is the same as forcing a channel off the air due to it’s politcal bias, right? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/70 "2019-09-18T18:03:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, the fact that the FCC already bans swear words, nudity, tobacco ads and such on broadcast TV, and has done so for decades is the same as forcing a channel off the air due to it’s politcal bias, right? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Trump says that reporting bad is not free speech. Your side is already trying to move us in this direction. You are trying to give them more power. I thought the right was always warning about unintended consequences. Also, I think something is wrong with your eyes. Did you get some grapefruit juice in them or something? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/71 "2019-09-18T18:05:33Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Let’s try a little exercise called: Premeditatio Malorum > > _I wave my magic gun and your wish is granted - mass shooting reporting is muzzled._ (pun intended) > > Unfortunately, the rate of mass shootings and resulting victims does not change as expected. What went wrong? Who/What do you blame? What do you propose be done about it? Let’s try it and see. Maybe all the experts are wrong. We could try the reduction in CO2 to fix climate change too. We have tried gun control and “the rate of mass shootings and resulting victims did not change as expected.” But what the gun grabbers want then is to double down and want more and further reaching. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/72 "2019-09-18T18:08:32Z")
So, do you plan on banning coverage honoring victims? Do you plan on banning coverage of the trial when the shooter isn’t killed? The El Paso shooter was motivated by racist stuff coming from the White House and other places. Plan on banning that also? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/73 "2019-09-18T18:14:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > So, do you plan on banning coverage honoring victims? > Do you plan on banning coverage of the trial when the shooter isn’t killed? > > The El Paso shooter was motivated by racist stuff coming from the White House and other places. Plan on banning that also? Like I said “\* Don’t Name Them, Don’t Show Them, But Report Everything Else”\* ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/74 "2019-09-18T18:17:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Let’s try it and see. Maybe all the experts are wrong. Which experts? Can you be more specific? What is the nature of their expertise? > [@DrDeth](#): > > We could try the reduction in CO2 to fix climate change too. We could all try holding our breath. Solve both the climate and gun violence problems. > [@DrDeth](#): > > We have tried gun control and “the rate of mass shootings and resulting victims did not change as expected.” But what the gun grabbers want then is to double down and want more and further reaching. I frankly don’t think gun control is sufficient. Your own statistics bear that out. What we need is significant gun reduction. But we are not likely to agree there. Let’s not belabor it. Importantly, you avoided answering my question. I’ll repeat: Media has been sufficiently muzzled. Numbers not going down. What went wrong? What/who’s to blame? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/75 "2019-09-18T18:19:45Z")
You lost me with “Other countries don’t have the social media we have” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/76 "2019-09-18T18:24:51Z")
I feel like mentioning that the debate isn’t (or shouldn’t be) “Which is to blame for mass shootings: mass media, or guns?” It could easily be both: Mass media/social media providing a motive, people like **DrDeth** insisting that everybody\* should have access to murder weapons providing the means. I actually _agree_ that if we shut off the internet, burned all the newspapers, and bombed the television stations, that would curtail mass shootings quite a bit. There is no part of that statement that says that that’s a better idea than severely curtailing private gun ownership. - who hasn’t _already_ done a mass shooting or something else to flag them ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/77 "2019-09-18T18:29:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Which experts? Can you be more specific? What is the nature of their expertise? > … > > Importantly, you avoided answering my question. I’ll repeat: Media has been sufficiently muzzled. Numbers not going down. What went wrong? What/who’s to blame? I just did, numerous cites. where are your cites? Like I said, I dont know, lets try it and see. We have tried gun control and it didnt work, so apparently the gun grabbers think we need more of it. \*\*And what is wrong with you guys? Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? Why do you need to read their names at the cost of more dead? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/78 "2019-09-18T18:41:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I just did, numerous cites. where are your cites? > Like I said, I dont know, lets try it and see. We have tried gun control and it didnt work, so apparently the gun grabbers think we need more of it. > > \*\*And what is wrong with you guys? Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? Why do you need to read their names at the cost of more dead? \*\* Let’s say that what you want is done but the shootings don’t lessen. What is your next step? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/79 "2019-09-18T18:41:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > \*\*And what is wrong with you guys? Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? Why do you need to read their names at the cost of more dead? \*\* Hey man, I don’t even watch the news. I don’t know the names of _any_ mass shooters. But I’m not sure that the level of media discretion you describe would actually be enough to stop mass shooters, because they can blog _their own_ manifestos. Social media makes everybody a movie star. They have a platform - so why not put on a show? And sure, you could maybe _(maybe)_ get the top twelve social media platforms to try and do a slipshod and censorship-filled job of intercepting that sort of material, but there will be other, darker webs where they can boast unimpeded. They may not be able to get _you_ to hear about it, but they’ll get an audience nonetheless - one prone to praising them for it, even. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/80 "2019-09-18T18:45:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I just did, numerous cites. where are your cites? > Like I said, I dont know, lets try it and see. We have tried gun control and it didnt work, so apparently the gun grabbers think we need more of it. > > \*\*And what is wrong with you guys? Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? Why do you need to read their names at the cost of more dead? \*\* I answered this in the [other thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882156&page=2). I’ll repeat it, if that helps: > [@QuickSilver](#): > > It was “science and fact” that violent video games cause violence IRL. That has been largely discredited. Give it a bit of time and you’ll find your favored hypothesis will be discredited as well. (There is a disclaimer in what you quoted that says the extent to which media contributes was not included in the scope of the study.) > > It’s not that I entirely disagree with you that media has no role to play in these events. Clearly copycat behavior among individuals inclined to commit these types of acts is a thing. However, the extent to which it motivates and amplifies this effect has not been effectively studied, much less concluded. > > Lack of sufficient and conclusive evidence, however, does not appear to deter you from drawing your conclusion. So consider the possibility you’re in no position to lecture anyone about “science and facts”. > > There is plenty wrong with the 24/7 news cycle. The sensationalism of news “BREAKING” every minute of the day is hard to take seriously anymore and I wish it would stop. The fact that news stations feel the need to fill hours and days with repeated coverage ad-nauseam is frankly annoying as fuck and serves no-one but the advertisers and the media companies. That said, mass shootings are a problem in society and should not be downplayed because they are inconvenient PR to otherwise upstanding gun rights supporters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391.md?page=5)