# Solution to USA Mass shootings **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391 "2019-09-17T17:44:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/81 "2019-09-18T19:13:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > We have tried gun control and it didnt work When was that? > [@](#): > > Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? Why do you need to read their names at the cost of more dead? \*\* We NEED to understand what causes them to do what they do, and that means we NEED to know their backgrounds so we can identify causal factors. Aren’t YOU always pounding the drum about “Guns aren’t the problem, mental health is the problem”? Well, how about \*working \*on the mental health problem instead of handwaving that away too? Make any sense to ya? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/82 "2019-09-18T19:47:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When was that? That one time when “assault style” weapons were restricted from sale. Still not over it. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/83 "2019-09-18T20:34:23Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > That one time when “assault style” weapons were restricted from sale. Still not over it. Oh, so like that time I tried to stop traffic by looking sternly at it, then. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/84 "2019-09-18T21:49:19Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I answered this in the [other thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882156&page=2). I’ll repeat it, if that helps: No, you didnt, let’s try again: **And what is wrong with you guys? Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? Why do you need to read their names at the cost of more dead?** As far as this: “However, the extent to which it motivates and amplifies this effect has not been effectively studied, much less concluded.” I have cited like ten studies now. That’s pretty much “effectively studied”. Why are you ignoring the science? \*\*Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/85 "2019-09-18T21:56:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > As noted sociologists and other experts have proved- it’s not the guns, it’s the media. The media glorifying the shooters is what has caused the large uptick in mass shooting in this century. > > As I showed over in the elections thread about O’Rourke: > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882156&page=2](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882156&page=2) > > [https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...research-shows](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...research-shows) > > [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...rJRTObuojybVyc](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...rJRTObuojybVyc) > \*The second dose came as I held my breath, hoping and praying the media wouldn’t amplify the violence. > > But they did. > > They did exactly what was needed to influence the next perpetrator to lock and load. > > 1. They named the shooter. > 2. They described his characteristics. > 3. They detailed the crime. > 4. They numbered the victims. > 5. They ranked him against other “successful” attackers. > > School shootings are a contagion. And the media are consistent accomplices in most every one of them. > > There’s really no useful debate on the point. The consensus of social scientists since David Phillips’ groundbreaking work in 1974 is that highly publicized stories of deviant and dangerous behavior influences copycat incidents.\* > > [https://www.elon.edu/u/academics/com...HzwQqHI2r9fjYM](https://www.elon.edu/u/academics/com...HzwQqHI2r9fjYM) > _This study suggests that there is a pattern > between the spread of mass shooting news on social media platforms and the increase in these crimes. Over > time, as social media has increased in usage, so has the coverage of news concerning mass shootings. This > also further reflects shooters’ desire for fame and their tendency to copy a crime. > Evidence from this study reveals a large increase in the number of mass shootings after 2011’s social > media milestones, and one can conclude that social media most likely has some effect on these crimes, > although the degree of this relationship is beyond the scope of this study._ > > [http://www.center4research.org/copy-...M3lsW1yXPMrEQ8](http://www.center4research.org/copy-...M3lsW1yXPMrEQ8) > \*Shooters get enormous attention: their name, photo, motivations, and story are often shared for days following the event. The American Psychological Association points out that this “fame” is something that most mass shooters desire.[2] This sometime inspires a copycat shooting, where the potential shooter typically tries to kill more people than their predecessor. > > The number of mass shootings in the U.S. has increased exponentially since the early 2000s\* > > However, we can cut back the number of shootings without tearing up the 1st Ad. > > 1. Broadcast Media doesnt have unlimited 1st Ad protection. We banned tobacco ads, we can get them to agree to not broadcast the names, etc of the shooters. Show them the stick and the carrot, let them agree to do this under threat of having it forced on them. They can even use it to show “they care”. Fine. Broadcast media is the problem. > > 2. Print Media may well go along to some extent, like they now do with not printing the names of rape victims. Encourage them. Some wont, but that’s OK. > > See- and in one stroke we cuts back the number of mass shootings to pre-2000 levels. Certainly far more than any Constitutional gun control measures would do, anyway. > > Not that some gun controls measures, like banning the SALE of ‘assault weapons’, more background checks and “red flag” laws wont help some. I agree, but the media would rather make money. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/86 "2019-09-18T21:58:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > When was that? > > We NEED to understand what causes them to do what they do, and that means we NEED to know their backgrounds so we can identify causal factors. Aren’t YOU always pounding the drum about “Guns aren’t the problem, mental health is the problem”? Well, how about \*working \*on the mental health problem instead of handwaving that away too? Make any sense to ya? CA has the strongest Gun control laws in the nation. Assault weapons, including he AR15 and AK 47 are banned, full background checks on every sale, most handgun makes and models are banned, long waiting periods, gun classes, etc. Still the murder rate is high, right in the middle of all states, with states with nearly no controls much lower murder rate. DC & Chicago Banned handguns. Sure, the Police, FBI and experts need to know that, but why do\*\* YOU\*\*? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/87 "2019-09-18T22:06:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure, the Police, FBI and experts need to know that, but why do\*\* YOU\*\*? You’re being awfully accusatory. Do you think that some specific person here has exhibited a shooter obsession? And why do you think it would matter if we had? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/88 "2019-09-18T22:07:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, you didnt, let’s try again: > **And what is wrong with you guys? Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? Why do you need to read their names at the cost of more dead?** > > As far as this: “However, the extent to which it motivates and amplifies this effect has not been effectively studied, much less concluded.” I have cited like ten studies now. That’s pretty much “effectively studied”. Why are you ignoring the science? > \*\*Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? \*\* I get mystified why guns rights advocates NEED AR-15s. NEED!!! At the cost of more dead!!! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/89 "2019-09-18T22:21:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Like I said “\* Don’t Name Them, Don’t Show Them, But Report Everything Else”\* Then it’s not going to do any good, since these people will be remembered by their work. Given that they are usually dead after the shooting, I don’t think basking in the glory has much to do with it. Plus, while their names are not newsworthy, their backgrounds are. Want to encourage rumors that the killing was foreign terrorism? The bigots will eat up the opportunity to spread such rumors. Copy cats are copying the actions, and don’t probably care about the identity of the killer. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/90 "2019-09-18T22:24:51Z")
> [@MortSahlFan](#): > > I agree, but the media would rather make money. How many more papers get sold by publishing the name of the nonentity who did the killing versus the details of the act? So, bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/91 "2019-09-18T23:04:46Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You’re being awfully accusatory. Do you think that some specific person here has exhibited a shooter obsession? And why do you think it would matter if we had? He seems to think that he, and the general public needs to know those names. And I suppose the names of rape victims also. “We NEED … we NEED” those are his words, not mine. Why do “_we_” need to know those things? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/92 "2019-09-18T23:07:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I get mystified why guns rights advocates NEED AR-15s. NEED!!! At the cost of more dead!!! I dont own one, never have had. I own a .22 rifle may Dad gave me and my old Service pistol. But I like the Bill of Rights and I dont like useless laws. Hiding the names on broadcast media is perfectly Constitutional. I have said I have no issue with laws that ban the _sale_ of AR15s. They wont do much good, but it’s a gesture. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/93 "2019-09-18T23:10:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I dont own one, never have had. I own a .22 rifle may Dad gave me and my old Service pistol. But I like the Bill of Rights and I dont like useless laws. Hiding the names on broadcast media is perfectly Constitutional. You know there are numerous forms of media that is not “broadcast” right? What sense would it make to hide the names on a few television channels? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/94 "2019-09-18T23:20:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He seems to think that he, and the general public needs to know those names. And I suppose the names of rape victims also. > “We NEED … we NEED” those are his words, not mine. Why do “_we_” need to know those things? The only thing I saw that **Quicksilver** said “we need” is gun control. But regardless, I don’t think that hammering this drum is helping you. And I also think that screening the names and faces out of the major players of mass media wouldn’t make a lick of difference, as I said a bit upthread. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I dont own one, never have had. I own a .22 rifle may Dad gave me and my old Service pistol. But I like the Bill of Rights and I dont like useless laws. Hiding the names on broadcast media is perfectly Constitutional. Companies choosing of their own volition to hide the names and images and refer to shooters only as “white male right-wing racist Trump-supporting shithead” is totally constitutional. The government _ordering_ them to do that, _ehhhhh…_ > [@DrDeth](#): > > I have said I have no issue with laws that ban the _sale_ of AR15s. They wont do much good, but it’s a gesture. Well, yeah, as long as they’re gestures that won’t do any good I’m sure they sound fine. Myself I’d rather pass laws that would do some good, but they would mostly involve banning sale of **all** guns, and/or banning accessible carry on public property. To do the latter would probably require us to redefine “arms” as “bludgeons” though. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/95 "2019-09-19T01:27:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, you didnt, let’s try again: > **And what is wrong with you guys? Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? Why do you need to read their names at the cost of more dead?** > > As far as this: “However, the extent to which it motivates and amplifies this effect has not been effectively studied, much less concluded.” I have cited like ten studies now. That’s pretty much “effectively studied”. Why are you ignoring the science? > \*\*Why do you NEED to see the names of the killers? \*\* Yes, I did. Once more, with feeling, just for you: I don’t NEED to see or hear the names. I don’t even NEED or want to see their faces. I suspect, but can’t be sure, you have an ulterior motive for making this information unavailable but I could be wrong there. Either way, I don’t NEED any of that. Follow up question: Do you also feel that we don’t NEED testimonials of survivors and/or victims’ friends or family? Should that be something that the media be restricted from showing as well? Now as to your “science”, what you quoted specifically says that a study has not been conducted to quantitatively evaluate the extend to which media has the effect you claim. I’ll quote it for you again if you insist. Additionally, conclusions drawn by the sources you cited don’t provide quantitative evidence for claims. They provide speculative conclusions. Much like the speculative conclusions made in the violent games hypothesis that was later proven to be far less significant. If I’ve missed the actual science with quantified data, please correct me. I don’t expect I’ll get an answer from you as to my _premortem_ question. I mean, other than some nonsense about CO2. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/96 "2019-09-19T01:56:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I don’t NEED to see or hear the names. I don’t even NEED or want to see their faces. I suspect, but can’t be sure, you have an ulterior motive for making this information unavailable but I could be wrong there. Either way, I don’t NEED any of that. It’s clear that he is trying to draw parallels to those people who ask “Why do you NEED an AR-15?” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/97 "2019-09-19T03:08:28Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You know there are numerous forms of media that is not “broadcast” right? What sense would it make to hide the names on a few television channels? Well, do the other media spread the names of rape victims? No. Why because they followed the lead of other media and were shamed into it. And if the Police dont transmit the names and the broadcast media dont either , how will twitter find out? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/98 "2019-09-19T03:10:49Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The only thing I saw that **Quicksilver** said “we need” is gun control. But regardless, I don’t think that hammering this drum is helping you. > … > > Well, yeah, as long as they’re gestures that won’t do any good I’m sure they sound fine. Myself I’d rather pass laws that would do some good, but they would mostly involve banning sale of **all** guns, and/or banning accessible carry on public property. To do the latter would probably require us to redefine “arms” as “bludgeons” though. It wasnt quicksilver: Originally Posted by \*\*ElvisL1ves \*\* - We NEED to understand what causes them to do what they do, and that means we NEED to know their backgrounds so we can identify causal factors. \* Since those items involve the repealing of the 2nd AD, something that will never happen, how about we try what the scientists say will work? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/99 "2019-09-19T03:12:40Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Yes, I did. Once more, with feeling, just for you: > > I don’t NEED to see or hear the names. I don’t even NEED or want to see their faces. I suspect, but can’t be sure, you have an ulterior motive for making this information unavailable but I could be wrong there. Either way, I don’t NEED any of that. > > Follow up question: Do you also feel that we don’t NEED testimonials of survivors and/or victims’ friends or family? Should that be something that the media be restricted from showing as well? > … Good, then lets try that, what the _scientists_ say will work, instead of what hasnt worked. Why on earth would you suggest that? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391/100 "2019-09-19T10:32:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > As noted sociologists and other experts have proved- it’s not the guns, it’s the media. I am baffled by this statement. **Of course it’s the guns - without a gun, you don’t have a shooter.** Here is why there have been just 3 mass shootings in Great Britain since **1850**. It’s nothing to do with the media (we have 24 hour news from the BBC + ITV, plus many online newspapers etc.) From the article above: “A teenager who was found guilty of planning a mass shooting has been jailed for 16 years. Kyle Davies, 19, from Gloucester, tried to buy a handgun and ammunition for £1,000 from a dealer on the dark web…” **He couldn’t get hold of a gun** - because we have real gun control here. (Even our policemen on the beat don’t have guns.) As for the media: “the Columbine School massacre gunmen and Norwegian extremist killer Anders Breivik were “poster boys” for Davies.” So the teenager knew all about previous mass shootings - but he still didn’t kill anyone. **Because he couldn’t get a gun**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solution-to-usa-mass-shootings/840391.md?page=6)