# Solving the Phillip's screw's problems **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 24, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334 "2007-01-24T23:19:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myron_Van_Horowitzski)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/21 "2007-01-26T14:49:44Z")
[QUOTE=RiverRunner] What is nonsense? I’m not sure to whom that was directed. RR [/QUOTE] Oh, sorry, I was referring to the previous post, the Wikipedia reference. > [@RiverRunner](#): > > If you follow the link, the Wikipedia article mentions that they are _"scarce in the United States…_" They aren’t scarce… er, nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/22 "2007-01-26T15:55:18Z")
[QUOTE=scottkris] (BOLDING MINE) And there’s the rub. There are actually 3 different size Phillips heads, and what makes it confusing is that different manufactures call them by different names (I have a set of bits numbered 0-2 from one company, and another company calls them 1-3). The difference is not the center, but the size of the cross-slot. A large bit will not fit a small head (but a small bit **may** fit a large head, which often either strips the screwhead or the bit). [/QUOTE] My sets from Black and Decker and from Ryobi have 0, 1, 2, and 3. (There is also a Japanese system, which is different.) Interestingly enough, the Phillips Screw Company website scarcely mentions the original Phillips type. They’ve moved on to half a dozen other systems. ---
**Author:** ![Barrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Barrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrington)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/23 "2007-01-26T16:58:54Z")
Another advantage of the simple slotted screw is that, if it’s painted over, you can pretty easily dig the paint out of the slot with an awl or something. Not so easy with a Phillips screw. Funnily enough, I was just talking about this with my father yesterday. He was born in 1925 (England) and recalls his woodwork teacher at school bemoaning the _return_ of cross-headed screws, for that very reason. The teacher, on seeing one, said “those went out of fashion years ago when I was an apprentice, and now the bloody things are coming back”, or words to that effect. I’m not sure how that fits in with the established history of cross-headed screws, and only offer this as an anecdotal data-point. ---
**Author:** ![bluezooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/24 "2007-01-27T02:18:12Z")
[QUOTE=John W. Kennedy] My sets from Black and Decker and from Ryobi have 0, 1, 2, and 3. (There is also a Japanese system, which is different.) Interestingly enough, the Phillips Screw Company website scarcely mentions the original Phillips type. They’ve moved on to half a dozen other systems. [/QUOTE] Sizes 1 to 3 are commonly used but sizes 000 to 4 are not too difficult to come by.I’ve never had a problem removing then,the trick is to go up a size before damaging the screw. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/25 "2007-01-27T21:32:28Z")
Course, with any head type it helps if the screws are made of sturdy metal. Awhile back I made the mistake of driving some small brass screws with a power tool. They are now cone-head screws. If my friendly neighborhood hardware store stocks Torx-head screws, I’ve yet to find them. And they have few square-drive screws. So around here, if you don’t like slotted or Phillips, you’re pretty much, well, screwed. Sorry. I just can’t help the puns. Blame my muse. ---
**Author:** ![bluezooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2007, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/26 "2007-01-28T00:23:09Z")
In theory torx are a security measure, in practice pretty easy to buy at any shop dealing with the electronics industry ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/27 "2007-01-28T02:50:45Z")
I don’t get it about being a security measure. Any reasonable bit kit you get at Home Depot has several Torx bits-- heck, even my Swiss Army Knife has three or four. There _are_ special screw types for security, two of which are named “Torq”. They don’t try to give security by rarity, though, but by designing the screws and the bits so that it’s almost impossible to get any purchase on them going the wrong way. I’ve even seen slot-heads with that feature. ---
**Author:** ![bungoton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@bungoton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bungoton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2007, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/28 "2007-01-29T20:30:20Z")
In Canada we have been using Robertson screws for decades. They have all the advantages of the Phillips without the problem of stripping the screw head. One other interesting feature is that the screw stays on the screwdriver until you pull it off. That makes it easy to drive screws into awkward places without using 2 hands. Robertson screws never made it into the USA because the auto manufacturers refused to pay the requested license fees. Without a major user of the technology it never became popular. In Canada we use few other screw types unless they come from another country. If you check a hardware store here you will have trouble finding anything other than Robertson screws. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/29 "2007-01-31T03:03:26Z")
[QUOTE=bluezooky] In theory torx are a security measure, in practice pretty easy to buy at any shop dealing with the electronics industry [/QUOTE] Here’s the funny thing: the hardware store in question _does_ stock Torx _drivers_. ---
**Author:** ![SlickRoenick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SlickRoenick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlickRoenick)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/30 "2007-01-31T03:31:18Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] Here’s the funny thing: the hardware store in question _does_ stock Torx _drivers_. [/QUOTE] The Ace Hardware i work at has the Torx (with hole) and Square bits with the other Flat and Phillips bits. There are also bits called Clutch which look like hourglasses but i have never ever seen a screw or bolt that needed them. All the other security bits we can order, we just don’t stock them since no one ever needs them. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/31 "2007-01-31T03:45:52Z")
[QUOTE=CurtC] In my experience, the square-hole screws are common, even ubiquitous, in the cabinet industry, right here in the US. [/QUOTE] Well this board is learning a lot about me today! I’m a carpenter in a cabinet shop in the central US. Our cabinets are all held together with three-inch #2 square drive screws. I can authoritatively say that every cabinet shop in my large metropolitan area uses #2 square drive screws for almost everything. They are sometimes known in the contracting field as decking screws, because of their prevalence in outdoor decks. I’ve never heard them called Robertsons before, but I’ve only worked in cabinetmaking for about a year, so who knows what I might have missed. We only use phillips screws for attaching hardware. And flat-head screws are almost unheard of in the field. The only reason I’ve ever needed my flat head screwdriver when I was out in the field was to take the faceplate off of electrical outlets so they could be reinstalled inside cupboards. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/32 "2007-01-31T16:19:31Z")
[QUOTE=Randy Seltzer] Well this board is learning a lot about me today! I’m a carpenter in a cabinet shop in the central US. Our cabinets are all held together with three-inch #2 square drive screws. I can authoritatively say that every cabinet shop in my large metropolitan area uses #2 square drive screws for almost everything. They are sometimes known in the contracting field as decking screws, because of their prevalence in outdoor decks. I’ve never heard them called Robertsons before, but I’ve only worked in cabinetmaking for about a year, so who knows what I might have missed. We only use phillips screws for attaching hardware. And flat-head screws are almost unheard of in the field. The only reason I’ve ever needed my flat head screwdriver when I was out in the field was to take the faceplate off of electrical outlets so they could be reinstalled inside cupboards. [/QUOTE] Note, however, that Robertson screws and drivers have a slight taper which other square-drive screws don’t have. Robertsons are less likely to strip and can be wedged onto the screwdriver and (usually) stay put even when held vertically downwards. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/33 "2007-01-31T16:25:59Z")
Square drive screws (I don’t know if they’re Robertsons or not) seem to be ubiquitous in the RV industry. Virtually every camper or trailer I have been acquainted with is held together with them. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/34 "2007-01-31T18:01:42Z")
Most problems with phillips screws are the fault of the tool or the user. Contrary to a few earlier posts, there is only one **correct** driver size for each screw. Also, you need a good driver with a hardened point. A cheap driver will ruin a screw much easier. Brass screws should be considered one time use only. If installing a brass hinge or some such thing, pre-drill the holes and test fit with steel screws. If using an electric driver, set the clutch at the lowest setting that will drive the screw. This will prevent stripping the drive when the screw bottoms. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334/35 "2007-01-31T21:23:58Z")
Gentlemen, thoust shall buyeth magnetic tipped drivers. The argument over which screw stays on the tip the best becomes moot. And for the record I’m a big fan of the square drive, they’re even becoming popular in the electrical industry. Some electrical panels have square drive ground/nuetral lugs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/solving-the-phillips-screws-problems/389334.md?page=1)