# Somalian Pirates Seize US Crew -- Is It On? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397 "2009-04-08T15:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/321 "2009-04-12T07:48:56Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I was just wondering something similar. \*\* I was thinking that perhaps they could capsize the boat with a team of SEALS or a small submarine and catch them unawares?\*\* Grab the captain out of the water and capture the pirates? Heh , have a Los Angeles or Ohio class submarine surface directly under the lifeboat, no capsizing needed. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/322 "2009-04-12T07:49:15Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > Do you know how many holes you would have to put in a life boat to sink it? Absolutely no idea. Hence my asking. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/323 "2009-04-12T08:23:08Z")
In reverse order: > [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > Didn’t the French just recently storm a yacht getting a hostage killed in the process? Yes, but I do not know the details. If it had a small risk to the hostages then I guess it was bad luck. If it was recklessly risky then those responsible should be held accountable. > [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > Last time I checked the crew of the Alabama resisted the pirates and RETOOK control of the ship, and threw 3 pirates OVERBOARD. It is because of this resistance there is one hostage and not 20. I have absolutely NO problem with the crew doing whatever they want to do. They have the right to resist if they so choose. If they think they have a good opportunity then of course I support their right to use it,even if it means using force and killing pirates. That is between them and the owners of the ship and I have nothing to say. Not my business. What I am opposed to is people outside deciding to risk the lives of the hostages like they are worth little, just to make a point. If someone outside thinks it is worth risking the life of hostages I support his right to offer himself in exchange for hostages and then do whatever he wants. I would support the right of a few of these cowboys to be exchanged for the hostages. No problem there. But I do not support their right to risk someone else’s life. > [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > Americans resort to violence to solve problems more often than other nations? Ok and..? (1) Most people in advanced countries dislike that. They think that inclination to use violence is part of the problem, not part of the solution. They find the notion that you can decrease the level of violence in the world by using violence a bit strange. Most of us believe it would be a good thing to use violence only as a last resort, when it absolutely has to be used and there is no other way to resolve things. and (2) A few people deny that Americans are more inclined to use violence. Then we get gems like this > [@Commander Francis X. Castellano](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/commander-francis-x-castellano/492739/19): > > Kill the pirates. If the hostage survives, all the better. The pirates have to die. So, pirates who have not harmed anyone physically, who are demanding money, need to die immediately. And if innocent lives are lost in the process then that’s just too bad. Those guys need killing and it has to be now. No time for legal niceties. Of course the same people have trouble understanding the notion that quite a few Iraqis or Afghans would think that every American on their land needs to die ASAP. Because, you know, Americans are not just stealing stuff, they are killing people. But no, the Iraqis and Afghans need to understand that this is being done for their own good. They’re just too dumb to understand it. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/324 "2009-04-12T08:36:24Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I’m not sure what can be done to rescue the captain while the boat remains in the sea, and the chances of him being freed if the boat is allowed to put into shore without a ransom seem remarkably small. I think this type of hostage situation is something the experts would know well and have well planned. I have no idea but I would think the tactic will be to not let them get away and just continually talk and negotiate and wear them down. That’s pretty much what they do with any situation like this. They only have one hostage. If they kill him then they’ve lost all bargainning power. They need to keep him alive and well and they know that. More than a hostage they guy is a human shield. The navy have the luxury of having unlimited resources, including experts who can take turns and be alert and efficient. The pirates will slowly wear down. When they need anything the negotiations will wear them down. People who are tired and deprived of sleep tend to be much more willing to give up. In most situations like this I would expect them to give themselves up in the end. Only the fanatical would be suicidal but this is not the case. For these guys this is just a business deal. At first they wanted money and now they just want a chance to get away. After a day or two, when they are exhausted, they will be happy to surrender as long as they have the certainty that they will not be tortured. Which is one reason it is important that people around the world know you don’t torture your prisoners. A point which many do not seems to understand. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/325 "2009-04-12T12:00:57Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > My capsizing idea may work, but even then it’s a huge gamble with the captain’s life. True, but I just don’t see nay alternative that does not provide incentive for future piracy. I suppose a better alternative is just to wait them out – get a frigate or whatever alongside and let hunger do the work. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/326 "2009-04-12T12:36:50Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > (1) Most people in advanced countries dislike that. They think that inclination to use violence is part of the problem, not part of the solution. They find the notion that you can decrease the level of violence in the world by using violence a bit strange. Most of us believe it would be a good thing to use violence only as a last resort, when it absolutely has to be used and there is no other way to resolve things. > […] > So, pirates who have not harmed anyone physically, who are demanding money, need to die immediately. And if innocent lives are lost in the process then that’s just too bad. Those guys need killing and it has to be now. No time for legal niceties. France is not an advanced country. What is an advanced country? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/327 "2009-04-12T12:50:57Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > France is not an advanced country. What is an advanced country? Check your reading comprehension and when come back bring pie. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/328 "2009-04-12T12:52:30Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > France is not an advanced country. What is an advanced country? There’s a difference between France sending in French troops to storm a French boat to rescue French citizens versus many suggestions here of the US sending in the US Navy to effectively unilaterally blow up any boat in Somalia that isn’t a foreign tanker/container and bomb all pirates regardless of the presence of hostages. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/329 "2009-04-12T13:08:54Z")
Not to mention that I said that I did not know the details of the French operation and that a certain risk would be acceptable but total disregard for human life would not and if that had been the case then I would hold those responsible accountable. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/330 "2009-04-12T14:04:41Z")
BTW, in case nobody noticed, this is not an American ship, it’s a Danish-owned, American-flagged ship. No American company will lose money if it is lost. Which could make some people even more gun-happy, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/331 "2009-04-12T14:55:26Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I was just wondering something similar. I was thinking that perhaps they could capsize the boat with a team of SEALS or a small submarine and catch them unawares? Grab the captain out of the water and capture the pirates? You can’t capsize a lifeboat. They’re like those weighted clown toys that pop right back up when you hit them. Lifeboats, after all, are designed to survive storms that break up or sink big ships. If they stayed upside down when rolled over by a big storm wave they wouldn’t be very useful. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/332 "2009-04-12T17:34:35Z")
CNN is reporting the hostage captain has been freed. In the operation three pirates were killed and one captured. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/333 "2009-04-12T17:46:37Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/334 "2009-04-12T17:51:02Z")
That is good news. A shame anyone was killed. Even if they were pirates, they deserved to stand trial. Any details on the specifics of the operation? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/335 "2009-04-12T17:54:54Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Even if they were pirates, they deserved to stand trial. And then hanged by the neck until dead, their bodies tarred, put into a fitted iron cage, and then hung by the Thames (or the Potomac)? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/336 "2009-04-12T17:57:45Z")
Good work by the Navy, and good job by the Obama administration in approving the rescue. It had to be done. The consquences of letting these guys reach land with an American hostage would have been bad. And the example it would have set would have emboldened pirates and put far more people at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/337 "2009-04-12T18:00:33Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > That is good news. A shame anyone was killed. Even if they were pirates, they deserved to stand trial. Any details on the specifics of the operation? Apparently, one of the pirates was able to smuggle out this tape before his untimely death: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ragnbn_cPt8/hqdefault.jpg "Seinfeld - Pirate, part two") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ragnbn_cPt8) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/338 "2009-04-12T18:07:07Z")
Three cheers for everyone involved, and especially Capt. Phillips and the Navy Seals! Talk about timing… anyone else struck by the Easter (and Passover, too) symbolism of the liberation of the hostage? First the heroics of Capt. “Sully” and crew in “the miracle on the Hudson,” and now this equally heroic ship captain… if only our “captains of industry and finance” were as good and conscientious in their positions as these guys. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/339 "2009-04-12T18:20:09Z")
It’s a sad day for conservative pundits. Let’s bow our heads in remembrance and hope that next time, someone is killed and it will all be Obama’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/340 "2009-04-12T18:21:31Z")
Don’t forget to light your candles for the three slain pirates :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397.md?page=18)