# Somalian Pirates Seize US Crew -- Is It On? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397 "2009-04-08T15:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/341 "2009-04-12T18:33:04Z")
They still have a spare to put on trial. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/342 "2009-04-12T18:35:26Z")
Excellent. It seems the details of the rescue operation are a little sketchy right now. I read a Yahoo piece that only described “a brief skirmish”. Being ex-military, my curiosity is piqued at how they pulled it off without the captain being injured or worse. SEAL snipers emerging from the shadowy depths, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/343 "2009-04-12T18:48:17Z")
I note that John Keegan (whom many regard as the greatest living military historian) strongly agrees with Paul in Qatar: [Pirates must be hunted down and their vessels sunk on sight](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/5133029/Pirates-must-be-hunted-down-and-their-vessels-sunk-on-sight.html) > [@sailor](#): > > So, pirates who have not harmed anyone physically… So physical harm is what matters - the harm caused by kidnapping someone, holding him hostage and threatening to kill him is not worthy of an equally strong response? I’m glad the US Navy did not listen to such advice. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/344 "2009-04-12T19:15:55Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > Talk about timing… anyone else struck by the Easter (and Passover, too) symbolism of the liberation of the hostage? I don’t know about Easter, but Passover… An innocent from another land is taken by Africans and placed in bondage. The captors initially claim they will free their captive, and later renege on the deal. But a mighty power makes the waters run red, and makes fire rain from the sky. And in a dramatic scene in the sea off the northeast coast of Africa, the captives are freed! (At some point, that mighty power caused food to fall from the heavens as well.) It might as well be written in a Hagaddah! ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/345 "2009-04-12T19:34:18Z")
So now are they going to combine forces and sink everything along the Somali coastline and persuade the genuine fishermen to seek a less hazardous occupation(One that doesn’t involve renting or borrowing their boats out to pirates. )? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/346 "2009-04-12T19:43:43Z")
**Randy Seltzer** , your “Passover” analysis was a helluva lot more thorough than mine; I only had in mind, “liberation from captivity, death passing over the enslaved to strike down the captors,” but you really got it down! 🙂 As for the Easter comparisons, Phillips wasn’t literally dead and buried underground in a crypt, of course, but I think being kept under wraps (a tarp) in a lifeboat with one’s would-be killers, all but dead to the world, for three days+, only to be liberated on the fourth to enjoy a second lease on life comes reasonably close to the basic Easter narrative. * * * Of course, the captain wasn’t merely passively liberated by the Seals, but managed to escape a second time, jumping overboard, which freed up our guys to fire at the lifeboat and the pirates on it. I hope the most salient tactical details remain secret, to be shared only among military and merchant-marine circles. I wouldn’t be surprised if the captain and the Seals had managed to establish some kind of communication through the captive’s softly tapping in Morse code or something. The Seals may have been a near-constant underwater presence in the shadow of the lifeboat after a certain point (they’d have to be flown to a ship in the immediate vicinity, of course). Perhaps the guiding rule for other American hostages in near-identical situations in the future will be, “after a certain interval required for commando staging, go ahead and dive overboard if you can, swim straight down, and a Seal will greet you with SCUBA apparatus and escort you to the shadowing naval ship.” And I’d expect the Navy to at the very least to have been eavesdropping 24/7 with a crude parabolic dish (like the ones used in football broadcasts to pick up sounds on the field), and establish a link to some govt. Arabic translation team somewhere, to suss out what the pirates were saying to each other, and to determine their morale, etc. Plus thermal imaging devices, to spy on the movement of the persons on the lifeboat… as much as I would love to know all the details, it’d be better for the sake of future missions if the U.S. govt. kept the operational stuff under wraps. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/347 "2009-04-12T20:16:24Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > (Bolding mine) > And I’d expect the Navy to at the very least to have been eavesdropping 24/7 with a crude parabolic dish (like the ones used in football broadcasts to pick up sounds on the field), and **establish a link to some govt. Arabic translation team somewhere, to suss out what the pirates were saying to each other, and to determine their morale, etc.** Plus thermal imaging devices, to spy on the movement of the persons on the lifeboat… as much as I would love to know all the details, it’d be better for the sake of future missions if the U.S. govt. kept the operational stuff under wraps. _nitpick_ They would probably not have much luck in that, considering that Somalis speak Somali not Arabic. [example](http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/publish/index.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/348 "2009-04-12T20:30:47Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > I hope the most salient tactical details remain secret, to be shared only among military and merchant-marine circles. It’s been a long time since I’ve held a clearance, but I agree with this. There is no need to make tactics public. If pirates and their vessels suddenly started being ‘lost at sea’ without the knowledge of any government or Navy, it’s just their bad luck. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/349 "2009-04-12T23:49:24Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > I note that John Keegan (whom many regard as the greatest living military historian) strongly agrees with Paul in Qatar: [Pirates must be hunted down and their vessels sunk on sight](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/5133029/Pirates-must-be-hunted-down-and-their-vessels-sunk-on-sight.html) So what if somebody agrees with him, that still doesn’t make it right, specially in light of this: > [@](#): > > Many would complain about such tactics but, in my opinion, pirates have no rights – indeed, it will be vital to exclude human rights lawyers from the anti-piracy campaign. To bring any captives to Europe or America for trial would probably be to grant them their dearest wish, which is to secure entry to a new life in the First World. Good luck convincing any European nation to join you on this. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/350 "2009-04-13T00:00:02Z")
It’s really nice to hear the captain was rescued safely. I can only imagine how his family is feeling. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/351 "2009-04-13T00:05:07Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > It’s really nice to hear the captain was rescued safely. I can only imagine how his family is feeling. I agree, they must be ecstatic, as one could only imagine. What a story he’s going to have to tell his grandchildren (not to mention the free drinks at bars!). ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/352 "2009-04-13T00:48:41Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > It’s a sad day for conservative pundits. Let’s bow our heads in remembrance and hope that next time, someone is killed and it will all be Obama’s fault. Uhh…you make no sense. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/353 "2009-04-13T01:36:35Z")
Navy Seals - Good on you!!! Congrats to the Captain and his family. I’m sure all, including his crew, are thrilled. I feel no regret for the pirate scum that perished. May their brethren take note of what is hopefully awaiting them in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/354 "2009-04-13T03:16:05Z")
[Here’s](http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10566411)an interesting quote. > [@](#): > > Abdullahi Lami, one of the pirates holding the Greek ship anchored in the Somali town of Gaan said: “Every country will be treated the way it treats us. In the future, America will be the one mourning and crying,” he told The Associated Press. “We will retaliate (for) the killings of our men.” > > Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old self-proclaimed pirate, told The Associated Press from one of Somalia’s piracy hubs, Eyl, that: “From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them (the hostages).” > > “Now they became our number one enemy,” Habeb said of US forces. Very, very stupid if they actually intend to carry out such threats. Pirates survive to a large degree simply because they don’t aggravate the sea powers into putting in the effort necessary to hunt down and destroy them. > [@ManiacMan](#): > > [QUOTE=TooSchoolforCool] > It’s a sad day for conservative pundits. Let’s bow our heads in remembrance and hope that next time, someone is killed and it will all be Obama’s fault. Uhh…you make no sense. [/QUOTE] To point out what I’m sure you already know, it’s inevitable that if those crewmen or the Captain had been killed, the Republicans would have blamed it on Obama and his “liberal wimpiness”. It’s what they do. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/355 "2009-04-13T03:22:30Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > Uhh…you make no sense. Sure he does. > **[PR disaster for the GOP: Republicans bet against the United States and lose](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/12/719369/-PR-disaster-for-the-GOP:-Republicans-bet-against-the-United-States-and-lose)** > > Earlier today we found out that the standoff with Somalian pirates had come to a happy end for American Captain Richard Phillips. Patriotic Americans have good reason to rejoice this Easter Sunday: ... ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/356 "2009-04-13T04:12:07Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Sure he does. > > [PR disaster for the GOP: Republicans bet against the United States and lose](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/12/719369/-PR-disaster-for-the-GOP:-Republicans-bet-against-the-United-States-and-lose) I think that this bit from the article is important to keep in mind : > [@](#): > > What did this minor incident involving piracy have to teach us about the Republican Party? > > 1 : The Republican Party really is hoping that the United States fails. Often. So much so that we crawl back to the Republicans and beg them to take over the government in 2010 and 2012. > > 2 : Because the Republican Party wants the United States to fail, the Republican Party has a vested interest in causing the United States to fail. This perverse incentive can be seen working itself out in the way that Republican talking heads and thought leaders like Limbaugh and Gingrich bet against the United States, predicting our failure before all the facts are in. Limbaugh in particular clearly savors the thought of American failure. > > 3 : The Republican Party’s leaders are irresponsible. Politics is supposed end at the water’s edge. For Republicans like Limbaugh and Gingrich to go on the radio or television and demonstrate that they are hoping for a hostage rescue to fail so they can exploit that failure for political gain is a clear demonstration that the Republican Party and its leaders are unfit to serve as the leaders of our country. Whatever they once were or will be in the future, the Republicans at the moment are clearly all about Party Before Country ( and everything else ). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/357 "2009-04-13T05:26:15Z")
Kudo’s to the US Navy. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/358 "2009-04-13T06:22:49Z")
Don’t fuck with Navy SEALs! These are guys that shot accurately from the fantail of a ship in rough waters and managed to kill three out of four of the occupants of a small boat also subject to the same choppy seas. Along the same lines, do the Somalis not remember The Day of the Rangers or do they just want a second round? Because as I recall that Blackhawk Down story ended with a few dead US soldiers versus a few thousand casualties on the Mogadishu side. And that was with a small contingent of under-equipped troops who were cut off from support! The US pulled out of Somalia due to politics and public opinion, not due to any lack of ability to kick ass. Somalia wants another kick at the red, white and blue can? Bring it on, bitches! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/359 "2009-04-13T06:32:27Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > The US pulled out of Somalia due to politics and public opinion, not due to any lack of ability to kick ass. Somalia wants another kick at the red, white and blue can? Bring it on, bitches! “Somalia” doesn’t want anything. Much of the problem is that there’s no central authority. And our ability to “kick ass” isn’t very important because even a relatively puny destroyer is going to be a grotesque mismatch against a pirate ship. The problem is going to be coverage, not firepower. And our willingness to maintain that coverage indefinitely until a functional government arises in Somalia. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/360 "2009-04-13T07:43:37Z")
That’s very true. My response is more directed at the Somali pirate from the AP article you quoted. They might be hopping mad right now and willing to kill any hostages they can get their hands on but in a straight up firefight versus the USA they will lose every time. Somalia is an ongoing humanitarian tragedy and I wish there was some way, any way to improve conditions there so people didn’t have to resort to piracy just so they can make a living. Having said that, if that is what the people choose, they’re going to end up paying a steep price for that choice. It’s not like in 1993 when the sight of a dead US soldier being dragged through the streets caused horror and outrage. The American public is a little more desensitized to the deaths of its soldiers now and the prevailing opinion (here at least) seems to be “go to Somalia and kill pirates.” Our willingness to get involved has nowhere to go but up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397.md?page=19)