# Somalian Pirates Seize US Crew -- Is It On? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397 "2009-04-08T15:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/361 "2009-04-13T10:27:36Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Having said that, if that is what the people choose, The people have no chosen any such thing. You can’t seriously think that the whole of Somalia is involved in this. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/362 "2009-04-13T10:44:10Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Our willingness to get involved has nowhere to go but up. The way things turned out in Afghanistan and Iraq I can’t see that at all. The ignorant may be all gung ho about any foolish idea but those with a bit more realism and knowledge, including the military, know that it would be stupid. Not impossible, just stupid. Of course, just because something was stupid has not always stopped the American pesident from doing it but I think Americans have sobered up about their desire to rule the world. IMHO Americans today are less likely to support any kind of invasion of Somalia than they were seven or eight years ago. Americans who want to have 100% safety and have zero insecurity are just not realistic. You have to manage problems and this one was managed quite well. Even if you have an American killed now and then it is better than invading a country and having the certainty of having many more dead and wounded. You can’t be so simplistic about handling things. You would have better luck getting rid of 100% of crime in New York or Chicago than of getting rid of all piracy on the high seas. You just have to learn to live with things and manage them so they don’t get out of hand. Another thing I can’t help thinking is that we are all happy that the hostage was freed but just think how this is playing in the Muslim world. Just imagine if the situation had been the reverse, that while some American was sent to negotiate the release or exchange of prisoners with some insurgents, the insurgents killed the three other Americans and grabbed the negotiator. We would be hearing about the treachery and trickery and lack of honor of those dirty Muslims who would not respect a truce to negotiate. I bet that is how it is playing in many parts of the world right now. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/363 "2009-04-13T12:17:23Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Don’t fuck with Navy SEALs! These are guys that shot accurately from the fantail of a ship in rough waters and managed to kill three out of four of the occupants of a small boat also subject to the same choppy seas. Three out of three, actually so that much the better. The fourth pirate was already off the boat, having had requested medical attention for his wounded hand and carted off to the Navy ship (where he was naturally put under arrest). Also, this is easily the most popular thread I’ve ever started. Maybe later I’ll start one about global warming or whether or not God exists 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/364 "2009-04-13T12:19:03Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Another thing I can’t help thinking is that we are all happy that the hostage was freed but just think how this is playing in the Muslim world. Just imagine if the situation had been the reverse, that while some American was sent to negotiate the release or exchange of prisoners with some insurgents, the insurgents killed the three other Americans and grabbed the negotiator. We would be hearing about the treachery and trickery and lack of honor of those dirty Muslims who would not respect a truce to negotiate. I bet that is how it is playing in many parts of the world right now. Seeing how pirates have targeted Muslims before I doubt there will be that much support for their cause. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/365 "2009-04-13T12:55:12Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > Three cheers for everyone involved, and especially Capt. Phillips and the Navy Seals! > > Talk about timing… anyone else struck by the Easter (and Passover, too) symbolism of the liberation of the hostage? > > First the heroics of Capt. “Sully” and crew in “the miracle on the Hudson,” and now this equally heroic ship captain… if only our “captains of industry and finance” were as good and conscientious in their positions as these guys. Yeah totally, because Jesus spent so much time preaching about good Christians resorting to violence and killing others. Jesus loved nothing more than kicking arse and taking names. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/366 "2009-04-13T16:44:05Z")
The lucky guy here is the captain. Book deal, movie deal, lecture circuit… He’s set for life. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/367 "2009-04-13T17:30:12Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Another thing I can’t help thinking is that we are all happy that the hostage was freed but just think how this is playing in the Muslim world. Just imagine if the situation had been the reverse, that while some American was sent to negotiate the release or exchange of prisoners with some insurgents, the insurgents killed the three other Americans and grabbed the negotiator. We would be hearing about the treachery and trickery and lack of honor of those dirty Muslims who would not respect a truce to negotiate. I bet that is how it is playing in many parts of the world right now. Frankly, “the Muslim world” would be wise to consider how these mounting incidents of piracy (not just Somali, but Indonnesian and Malayan) are playing in the much larger non-Muslim world and should maintain a discourse on how piracy is un-Islamic and reflects poorly on its perpetrators, and how un-Islamic are these pirates’ warnings that they will presumably show no mercy in their future depredations against Americans. 'Cause if the propaganda of Muslim terrorists is any guide, they take pains to at least pay lip service to the notion that Muslims show mercy towards their enemies, “infidel” captives, etc. – if only in an attempt to diminish their moral culpability for the violent and murderous crimes they do commit. As for the American naval action in this incident, let me remind you that our merchant mariners tried to trade their hostage for Capt. Phillips, but were cheated by the pirates. The mariners showed those bastards mercy, but they refused to reciprocate, so fuck ‘em. (Had the trade gone through, the pirates probably could’ve gotten away cleanly before the U.S. Navy showed up. It was the pirates’ own greed and determination to hold onto their hostage and demand a ransom of millions that doomed them. You could say these pirates were hoisted up on their own yardarm, so to speak.) As for the negotiation “truce,” I don’t think the word “truce” fairly applies to pirates, who aren’t on an equal legal footing with any military presence from any country. “Truce” terms shouldn’t apply to them any more than “prisoner of war” would to the pirate placed under arrest now. This wasn’t soldiers or officers discussing terms on a battlefield; pirates fall under the same general rubric as terrorists, saboteurs and spies in mufti. There was a de facto state of peacetime international commerce on these oceanic trade routes that was violated by the belligerent attack of the pirates on our unarmed cargo ship – carrying food aid to that region, including Somalia, no less. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/368 "2009-04-13T17:56:44Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Seeing how pirates have targeted Muslims before I doubt there will be that much support for their cause. Right. Pirates are _hostis humani generis_. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/369 "2009-04-14T11:41:06Z")
How the holy hell did Islam get dragged into a thread about piracy? What the shit have the pirates got to do with Islam? Did I miss somewhere when the priates said they are doing this in the name of the Prophet? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/370 "2009-04-14T12:42:55Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > What the shit have the pirates got to do with Islam? Did I miss somewhere when the priates said they are doing this in the name of the Prophet? In the name of the Profit, more like. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/371 "2009-04-14T13:55:39Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > No. A hard helm order on a ship at full sea speed (and in piracy areas they are never doing any less) results in a turn of a radius measured in _miles_. > [@bengangmo](#): > > How the holy hell did Islam get dragged into a thread about piracy? > > What the shit have the pirates got to do with Islam? Did I miss somewhere when the priates said they are doing this in the name of the Prophet? If anything Islam is very anti-pirate, so to speak. The previous Somalian Islamic government punished it by death. But yes, it is not about religion, unless Money is a religion. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/372 "2009-04-14T19:11:30Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > If anything Islam is very anti-pirate, so to speak. The previous Somalian Islamic government punished it by death. > > But yes, it is not about religion, unless Money is a religion. Islam is against pretty much all of the activity practiced by terrorists and pirates. It would stand to reason that arms purchases are intertwined between the pirates and Al Queda. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/373 "2009-04-14T22:35:22Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Just imagine if the situation had been the reverse, that while some American was sent to negotiate the release or exchange of prisoners with some insurgents, the insurgents killed the three other Americans and grabbed the negotiator. We would be hearing about the treachery and trickery and lack of honor of those dirty Muslims who would not respect a truce to negotiate. I bet that is how it is playing in many parts of the world right now. If the Americans were _pirates_ dealing with, say, the Jordanian navy (does Jordan have a navy?) I imagine the reaction would be pretty different. Unless you’re talking about Beck’s reaction, which would be predictable. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/374 "2009-04-15T22:11:37Z")
To the OP’s thread starting question: Yes, it appears to be on! The pirates have already hijacked more vessels, attacked another US ship, have basically declared war on American shipping. It’s definitely on. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397/375 "2009-04-16T01:26:59Z")
The last attack on an American ship was [not for ransom](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8000447.stm). They intended to kill the crew and sink the ship. \*\*After the attack on Liberty Sun, one pirate, Abdi Garad, told AFP news agency they had intended to destroy the ship and its crew. \*\* Sounds like it’s on to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somalian-pirates-seize-us-crew-is-it-on/492397.md?page=18)