# Some advice to hypocritical priests/politicians/spokespeople caught in affairs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594 "2005-08-11T15:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/101 "2005-08-12T19:20:54Z")
Incidentally, as far as the title of the thread, I think that the best advice for anybody caught in a sex scandal is: Take immediate ownership. Either “Yes, I did it” or a vague “For the sake of my family I will not comment other than to say I did something I very much regret”. **DO NOT DENY IT IF IT’S TRUE!** I’ll never understand why a man who was as much a political animal as Clinton made that damned “I didn’t have improper relations with that woman” blunder. Had he come out and said “There is something in my private life I am not proud of, but it does not affect my presidency or my stance on political issues and for the sake of my wife and daughter I will not discuss it other than to say I am extremely remorseful”, I honestly think it would not have led to impeachment (especially since the public was overwhelmingly against impeachment proceedings anyway). Remind people that you are human, apologize to those affected, and move on. People will forgive a sexual sinner much more willingly than they will a liar, and give it a few months and these things will pass over and the next sex scandal will bump you to the bottom of the thread. Of course not establishing yourself as a spokesperson for morality and self appointed public censor is a better start. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/102 "2005-08-13T04:21:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > One which you don’t even hint at, beyond intimating perhaps that there’s a difference between “it’s \*his \* money” and “it’s \*his \* brain cells”. How about “Gambling is legal, and pot smoking, not so much.” ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/103 "2005-08-13T12:26:37Z")
I once heard that if one yells loud enough about the wrong doings or sins of others, they won’t notice the sins of the yeller,strangely enough one does notice the person who yells;for the loudness calls attention to him, or herself. perhaps we could look at such things as a call for help, they know from experience of what they speak? Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/104 "2005-08-13T12:39:34Z")
Adultery is legal, too. So it’s okay then? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/105 "2005-08-13T13:48:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How about “Gambling is legal, and pot smoking, not so much.” Nope, that’s a legal distinction, not a moral one. You’re aware those are not exactly the same concept, right? (Checking forum … yes, this is the Pit) I can’t help wondering if your \*own \* gambling habit, one which you’ve actually bragged about here repeatedly, colors your own moral judgments about it. Could it just perhaps be that, like Bennett, you only think about and judge others’ behavior while remaining blind to your own? That you’re willing to claim something isn’t really immoral if you do it yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/106 "2005-08-13T15:34:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > How about “Gambling is legal, and pot smoking, not so much.” > > Nope, that’s a legal distinction, not a moral one. You’re aware those are not exactly the same concept, right? If only the question had been “legal” vs. “moral”. > [@Bricker](#): > > In fact, there is a principled distinction to be made between pot smoking and gambling. That’s what I said. “Principled.” Relying on a legitimate principle. You respond as though I said there is a moral distinction to be made, and then refute me. Brilliant refutation of the strawman, not so much of the actual point. > [@](#): > > (Checking forum … yes, this is the Pit) I can’t help wondering if your \*own \* gambling habit, one which you’ve actually bragged about here repeatedly, colors your own moral judgments about it. Could it just perhaps be that, like Bennett, you only think about and judge others’ behavior while remaining blind to your own? That you’re willing to claim something isn’t really immoral if you do it yourself? No, I’m willing to own up to having done immoral things. I don’t agree my gambling is immoral, however. Certainly I wouldn’t trumpet the fact that I gamble so often if I were ashamed of it. Gambling, per se, is never immoral. Under certain circumstances, gambling may lead to immoral or unwise actions. Betting $500 on a hand of blackjack, in and of itself, is not immoral. If you need that $500 for rent money, or mom’s chemotherapy, then we’re talking immorality… but it’s not the gambling, but the profligate dismissal of your financial responsibility that is at issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/107 "2005-08-13T15:36:56Z")
> [@bluethree](#): > > Adultery is legal, too. So it’s okay then? Virginia Code § 18.2-365. Adultery defined; penalty. > [@](#): > > Any person, being married, who voluntarily shall have sexual intercourse with any person not his or her spouse shall be guilty of adultery, punishable as a Class 4 misdemeanor. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/108 "2005-08-13T16:30:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How about “Gambling is legal, and pot smoking, not so much.” That doesn’t suffice to construct a **principled** distinction (merely a **pragmatic** one). > [@Isaac Asimov](#): > > “What is your definition of justice?” > “Justice, Elijah, is that which exists when all the laws are enforced.” > Fastolfe nodded. “A good definition, Mr. Baley, for a robot… A human being can recognize the fact that, on the basis of an abstract moral code, some laws may be bad ones and their enforcement unjust. What do you say, R. Daneel?” > “An unjust law,” said R. Daneel evenly, “is a contradiction in terms.” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/109 "2005-08-13T16:32:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s what I said. “Principled.” Relying on a legitimate principle. Again, a cook-book list (i.e. what happens to be the law at any given moment) does not qualify as a “principle”. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/110 "2005-08-13T17:08:17Z")
If gambling is so legal, why are they always arresting bookies on cop shows? And I didn’t say adultery is legal everywhere. But it’s generally legal across the United States. I’m willing to bet more families have been torn apart by gambling than by marijuana use. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/111 "2005-08-13T17:09:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Virginia Code § 18.2-365. Adultery defined; penalty. Oh good lord. And just how constitutional do you think that statute is, anyways? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/112 "2005-08-13T17:23:44Z")
> [@bluethree](#): > > If gambling is so legal, why are they always arresting bookies on cop shows? You do understand cop shows /= real life, right? lotteries are gambling, casinos exist legally in certain places. regulated does not mean something is illegal- gambling is one of a number of things regulated (booze, cigs, guns etc). bookies are running unregulated (hence illegal) games. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/113 "2005-08-13T19:55:46Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Oh good lord. And just how constitutional do you think that statute is, anyways? For the vast majority of its existence, it was perfectly constitutional. Technically, it still is good law. In light of the recent _Lawrence v. Texas_, it’s possible - even likely - that it may be found wanting. But we had a conviction under this statute last year, post-Lawrence. In any event, it’s irrelevant. I got tired of explaining the elementary fallacy offered by **bluethree** , and just decided to answer the point literally. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/114 "2005-08-13T20:05:39Z")
> [@bluethree](#): > > If gambling is so legal, why are they always arresting bookies on cop shows? The gambling that’s under discussion in this thread (Bennett’s, and now mine) is legal gambling. I am perfectly willing to concede that, had Bennet been gambling _illegally_, he would be a hypocrite. > [@Steve MB](#): > > Again, a cook-book list (i.e. what happens to be the law at any given moment) does not qualify as a “principle”. Of ocurse it does. One can easily say, for example, “The use of marijuana is a morally neutral act, but since it is illegal, and an arrest for it will have very negative consequences for your life, you should NOT USE MARIJUANA. Gambling, by contrast, where legal is perfectly fine, as long as it does not have negative consequences on your life.” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/115 "2005-08-14T02:09:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Gambling, by contrast, where legal is perfectly fine, as long as it does not have negative consequences on your life." It’s hilarious to hear a staunch right-winger sounding like an updated flower child of the '60s. Cue up the Dead album, put on those love beads and share that classic mantra once more: \*“Do whatever you want, as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody. If it feels good, put it all on number 7.” \* 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/116 "2005-08-14T02:32:02Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s hilarious to hear a staunch right-winger sounding like an updated flower child of the '60s. > > Cue up the Dead album, put on those love beads and share that classic mantra once more: > > \*“Do whatever you want, as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody. If it feels good, put it all on number 7.” \* 🆒 Except that I didn’t say that. But given that it’s obviously much easier for you to counter arguments that you create for me, instead of actually addressing my arguments, I suppose your misquote is unsuprising. As a matter of public policy, I don’t think your formulation is so terrible, by the way. Of course, it all depends how we define “hurt anybody.” Does prostitution hurt anybody? I argue it does; you may see things differently… and that’s a reasonable position to take, too. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/117 "2005-08-14T03:11:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But given that it’s obviously much easier for you to counter arguments that you create for me, instead of actually addressing my arguments, I suppose your misquote is unsuprising. Misquote? How literal we’re being this evening. I’m surprised you didn’t complain about being called an updated hippie. "I’m not a hippie! I don’t have long hair or wear tie-dyed clothes! You’ve deliberately mischaracterized me!! Your arguments have already been countered, shredded and flushed, but as long as _you_ define the terms using **Bricker’s Dictionary of Life[sup]TM[/sup]**, you will always “win”. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/118 "2005-08-14T04:07:36Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Misquote? How literal we’re being this evening. > > I’m surprised you didn’t complain about being called an updated hippie. > > "I’m not a hippie! I don’t have long hair or wear tie-dyed clothes! You’ve deliberately mischaracterized me!! > > Your arguments have already been countered, shredded and flushed, but as long as _you_ define the terms using **Bricker’s Dictionary of Life[sup]TM[/sup]**, you will always “win”. :dubious: Which thread are you reading?!? ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/119 "2005-08-14T07:15:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. > > You show me a quote from Bennett that says he endorses frugality and moderation, and I’ll agree he’s a hypocrite. Um, okay. From _The Spirit of America_, Chapter V: Industry and Frugality, p. 274: > [@William J. Bennet](#): > > In our modern age of easy credit and consumer debt, of great affluence and great decadence, it is important to recall that industry and **frugality** are the sources not only of material success but of good and satisfactory living as well. (Bolding mine.) He goes on in the chapter to agree strongly with Benjamin Franklin’s _Plan for Moral Perfection_, which includes the lines (p. 276): > [@Ben Franklin](#): > > 1. FRUGALITY > Make no expense but to do good to others or yourself; i.e., waste nothing. > > 2. INDUSTRY > Lose no time; be always employ’d in something sueful; cut off all unnecessary actions > > 3. SINCERITY > Use no hurtful deceit; think innocently and justly, and, if you speak, speak accordingly. > . . . > > 4. HUMILITY > Imitate Jesus and Socrates. In the introduction to the book, Bennet writes(p. 18): > [@](#): > > We also need to restore our nation’s sense of greatness, to learn once again about the great deeds and the great men and women of our past so that we might move forward. . . . Their advice is worthy; we would benefit, I think, from heeding it. It’s a bit disingenous, I think, to say that Bennet does not advocate the advice given by the stories and quotations he includes in his books. That he doesn’t follow it makes him a flaming hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594/120 "2005-08-14T08:17:20Z")
**Purl** , darlin’, if you hadn’t been told recently, you rule. It’ll be interesting to see how **frugality** and **waste nothing** in fact mean “gamble away $8 million, hell, you can afford it!”, though I’ve no doubt Bricker will demonstrate that in fact they mean exactly that (and that, by the way, he himself gambles and can afford to lose $8,000, thus giving his argument extra traction). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-advice-to-hypocritical-priests-politicians-spokespeople-caught-in-affairs/316594.md?page=7)