# Some assmunch stole my friend's site layout... help? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771 "2003-10-21T21:24:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/1 "2003-10-21T21:24:20Z")
Anyone know what can be done? Here is the thieving scum: buttons.dk (non clickable because I don’t want him to find this thread in his access logs) Here is my friend’s site: [t-shirtme.com](http://t-shirtme.com) If you look in the source code for the buttons site you can see “t-shirtme” all over the place. Fuckhead. He has asked for help because he doesn’t know what to do. Anyone have ideas? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/2 "2003-10-21T21:45:32Z")
I’m not sure that source code is copywriteable. I assume that would be your friends only course of action (eg. a copywrite infringement case) but I dont’ know if it applies here. Hopefully someone more legally minded will be along soon. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/3 "2003-10-21T21:49:39Z")
Well the images are copyrighted at least I’m sure. Man that’s just shameless. What a dick. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/4 "2003-10-21T22:04:38Z")
Since the guy isn’t in the US I doubt he can sue him. I’m just wondering if there is someone who can be complained to to get the guy’s site taken down or something. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/5 "2003-10-21T22:14:30Z")
Well, first things first-he needs to put up a copyright disclaimer up. After that’s done, he then needs to contact buttons.dk in a nice, polite, and firm letter asking him to cease and desist. Last move to make is to contact a lawyer and have him correspond with this guy. Aside from source code(which is of course copyrightable), you’ll have to deal with international law. Honestly, I know your friend did a good job, is proud of his work and hates to see a guy like this ripping him off…but the first question a lawyer should ask is, is it hurting your friend or his business in any way? and if his business is being harmed, does it monetarily make sense to litigate? Sam ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/6 "2003-10-21T22:16:59Z")
Well, that’s a shame, but I don’t know what can be done about it. Other than it sucks big time that someone stole his site, the two are not competing products. Nor will I doubt that his clients are likely to run into that site. In other words, I don’t think there’s anything he can legally do that would be worth it. Suing someone in another country? Probably a big time hassle. Collecting on damages…good luck. The sites are obviously the same. The .dk site obviously filtched it: as you say, the code has “Tshirts” all over it. One thing though: they both look like templates taken from a place such as [templatemonster.com](http://templatemonster.com) (not sure of the site name). If that is the case, then I don’t know that your friend has a right to anything. The copyright on images (unless he outright purchased the rights) belongs to the template maker. I know that some sites use code so that the source is not viewable. Not that helps now, but just a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/7 "2003-10-21T22:17:49Z")
Source code is covered under the DMCA, Digital Millenium Copyright Act, and is most definitely something that can be and is copyrighted. The original creator of the particular piece of code, barring any kind of open source agreement (such as that made by compiling under GNU public license or using GNU code), the original coder owns it. AFAIK and IANAL, the only way this guy could possibly recoup anything from the copyright violation is if 1) the country in which the copier resides or committed the copying also considers source code copyrighted or 2) the country in which the copier resides or committed the copying is a signatory to the DMCA. But you can bet your ass that in the US, source code is copyrighted. If it weren’t the case, the SCO vs. Linux fight would’ve been over and done with already, dismissed as ‘You cannot copyright source code.’ ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/8 "2003-10-21T22:44:23Z")
Damned hamsters. Anywho, Opal, if you need any info on the owner of buttons.dk, let me know via E-mail and I’ll forward it to you. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/9 "2003-10-21T22:45:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*Since the guy isn’t in the US I doubt he can sue him. I’m just wondering if there is someone who can be complained to to get the guy’s site taken down or something. \*\* It appears that the applicable treaty governing international copyright of this type of work would be the Berne Convention… > [@](#): > > [http://www.cs.uu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/law/Copyright-FAQ/part4.html](http://www.cs.uu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/law/Copyright-FAQ/part4.html) > > The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works was established in 1886 in Berne, Switzerland. The text has been revised, and the current edition (and the one to which the United States and most other nations are a signatory) is the 1971 Paris text. The treaty is administered by the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), an international organization headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland. > > \ > > The following nations are signatories to the Berne Convention (1971 Paris text): Argentina, Australia, Austria, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belgium, Benin (formerly Dahomey), Brazil, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso (formerly Upper Volta), Cameroon, Canada, the Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, Colombia, Congo, Costa Rica, Cote d’Ivoire (Ivory Coast), Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, **Denmark** … If it were me, the first place I’d start is with the site owner and politely ask him to take down the stolen art and coding. If that doesn’t work, I’d contact his ISP. After that, there’s probably little to nothing he can do that would be enforceable. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/10 "2003-10-21T23:37:14Z")
I seriously doubt my friend wants to “litigate” he is just annoyed to hell that the guy stole his stuff. I am also fairly certain (98%) that he created the template himself, and didn’t get it from some template site. So I’m not so much looking at “how can he sue this guy” or anything as just “is there anything he can do to get this loser to stop using his stuff”. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/11 "2003-10-22T00:19:05Z")
Maybe I’m rusty at my HTML, but looking at his source he’s linked a few of the images. Unless he knows how to code his own html, (in which case he wouldn’t steal it), it should cause him problems. Here’s hoping he doesn’t know how to fix the image paths. Your friend _could_ build an all Flash site which you can’t swipe, but we’ve been down the road of good design Vs. all Flash sites. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/12 "2003-10-22T00:24:28Z")
The above made no sense, let’s try again. Your friend could radically could rename the images, replace them, redesign some of them, etc. Of course he could just steal them again, so that doesn’t seem to be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/13 "2003-10-22T00:26:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by catsix \* > \*\*Source code is covered under the DMCA, Digital Millenium Copyright Act, and is most definitely something that can be and is copyrighted. [snip] > But you can bet your ass that in the US, source code is copyrighted. If it weren’t the case, the SCO vs. Linux fight would’ve been over and done with already, dismissed as ‘You cannot copyright source code.’ \*\* Bit of an aside – Presumably there are limits on source code copyrights **catsix** (as opposed to patents) in that there are only so many ways to, for example, markup a 2 column left float layout web page. If I layout a web page in the same manner as someone else am I then in breech of copyright? Also, I thought the SCO / Linux issue was more around patented code… though I’m no expert. Not that this has anything to do with **OpalCat’s** friend’s site. Looking at the way the image paths appear in the buttons.dk site it would seem to me that the original site pages were simply saved with an option to download all dependant files as these will then get stored in an “appropriately” named directory, and this is derived from the saved pages title – in your friend’s case this is “[T-shirtMe.com](http://T-shirtMe.com) - Design your own custom t-shirt for FREE” which is the same name as the images directory on the buttons site. Yep, I’d be pretty peeved if someone so blantantly (and incompetently) ripped off one of my sites. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/14 "2003-10-22T00:29:48Z")
Tell your friend to suck it up. There’s nothing he can do. Sorry. That’s the way the web works. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/15 "2003-10-22T00:31:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > **Maybe I’m rusty at my HTML, but looking at his source he’s linked a few of the images.** Not actually linked, no. The path is relative to the main page, it’s just that the image directory name is very long and is derived from the name of the original site. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/16 "2003-10-22T00:38:13Z")
Well, there is one thing he can do protect his images: he can replace the src attribute to them with an href to a cgi script that checks the referrer. ```auto ``` If it’s his own site, it simply returns the image; if not, it returns the picture from goatse.cx. That’s kind of complicated, but he might be able to find something to do it on the web. Other than that, the only way to protect his html is to store it in a database, and have a php/asp/jsp page that retrieves it from the database to display it after checking the referrer. However, that makes the site unindexable by search engines, which seems like too high a cost, as well as too much trouble. Basically, tell him to live with it. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/17 "2003-10-22T01:09:16Z")
The images on the dk site aren’t linked, for example: img src=“T-shirtMe\_com - Design your own custom t-shirt for FREE-filer/top.jpg” rather than: img src=“[http://www.somewhere.com/images/top.jpg](http://www.somewhere.com/images/top.jpg)” So it’s not bandwidth stealing… it’s nice simple breach of copyright. 😉 (and while, as you say, there may be little that can be done, and that the nature of the web does facilitate such breaches, that does not make them moral or legal). **World Eater** , looks like you’re right about linking… but not the images… check out the “Site News” left navigation area… it links back to the original site. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![cj\_finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@cj\_finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cj_finn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/18 "2003-10-22T02:10:43Z")
Opal: Is your friend really that serious about getting rid of the offending site? If so, tell him to look up the appropriate forms on [www.copyright.gov](http://www.copyright.gov). Have him register his copyrights. He has copyrights in the html code, the individual images, and I believe the screen shot itself. Three DIY copyright applications will cost under $100. Contact a lawyer. Have said lawyer sue said scum bag here in the US. Jurisdiction will likely apply and even if it does not, said scum bag must file the necessary papers to contest jurisdiction ($). If jurisdiction holds, have the lawyer ask for statutory damages. I have forgotten what the cap on statutory damages is, but it is high enough that if your friend can collect even a small percentage, he should come out ahead on the deal. If jurisdiction does not hold, sue the scumbag in Germany. This is a very simple case, in concept. It will be expensive for your friend, unless he can find a novice copyright attorney to take this one on a contingency basis (fat chance). Do not believe anyone who says that “this is the way the Internet works” or that “you’ll have to live with it”. That is simply not true. The issue is whether your friend is just a bit upset, or is truly outraged. Outrage is kind of needed in this situation if you want to carry a suit home. A simpler solution might be to have the copyright attorney send a cease and desist letter to the folks that are hosting the site, with a copy of your friend’s copyright registrations. I’m thinking that the site comes down but quick. The Berne convention is your friend. CJ btw I am a lawyer that practices in this area BUT, I do not litigate. Get some expert advice on how to proceed with this type of case from an experienced litigator. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/19 "2003-10-22T02:32:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cj finn \* > \*\*Opal: > > Is your friend really that serious about getting rid of the offending site? \*\* Well…uh…no… I thought I’d pretty much already said that. No, he is not looking to litigate. He doesn’t want to sue anyone or put out a lot of money or anything. He is just pissed off and wants to know if there is any easy or likely way of getting this asshole to stop using his layout. ---
**Author:** ![Ryle\_Dup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Ryle\_Dup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryle_Dup)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771/20 "2003-10-22T02:43:12Z")
Has he tried asking him yet? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-assmunch-stole-my-friends-site-layout-help/208771.md?page=2)