# Some Basic Football (Soccer) Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 24, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733 "2005-02-24T17:31:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/41 "2005-02-25T22:03:55Z")
> [@The Big Cheese](#): > > Why does Arsenal have O2 on their jerseys?? It is their sponsor. In football it is not at all unusual for club teams to have sponsors on the front of their jerseys. Manchester United has Vodaphone, Chelsea have Fly Emirates, Real Madrid have Siemens. The only club team that does not has refrained from such sponsorship that I know of is Barcalona. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/42 "2005-02-25T23:58:07Z")
Yeah, which made all the hubbub about baseball perhaps putting advertising on the sleeve of their shirts all the more amusing! In Soccer it’s a given! ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/43 "2005-02-26T01:36:47Z")
Regarding clubs that made meteoric rises through the divisions, two more come to mind. Northampton Town, against whom George Best once famously scored 6 goals in a FA Cup tie, went from the Fourth Division to the First Division and back again within the space of about 10 years in the 60s. Then there’s Wimbledon, of course, already mentioned here, who went from the Southern League to the First Division (even leading it at one point, I think). They would have qualified for Europe (the now defunct Cup Winners’ Cup) but for the 5 year ban that was imposed on English clubs after the Heysel Stadium disaster in 1985. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/44 "2005-02-26T04:10:41Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > Greece won the European championships. It’s a national competition, but just for European teams obviously. It should be obvious, but both the Gold Cup & Copa America invite “outsiders”. This makes it possible for, say, Mexico to win the championship of South America. Europe keeps it pure though. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/45 "2005-02-26T06:45:58Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > It should be obvious, but both the Gold Cup & Copa America invite “outsiders”. This makes it possible for, say, Mexico to win the championship of South America. Europe keeps it pure though. All this means is that the organising body accepts Mexico into their definition of S America. The qualification stage for Euro 2004 included Israel, Azerbaijan and Armenia, none of which can really be claimed to be European. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/46 "2005-02-26T08:34:15Z")
The Gold Cup and the Copa America both need more competitive teams playing in it than each confederation can provide. Europe has more depth. And it has countries which are smaller in size so there are more to pick from. The Asian and African continental competitions don’t invite other countries because they have so many countries to choose from. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/47 "2005-02-26T08:41:25Z")
And for those so inclined, Asia’s top international competition is the AFC Cup, which Japan won in 2004 in China, defeating the hosts 3-1. The African Cup of Nations was last held in 2004 and Tunisia won 2-1 over Morocco. Tunisia was the host. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/48 "2005-02-26T09:26:50Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > All this means is that the organising body accepts Mexico into their definition of S America. The qualification stage for Euro 2004 included Israel, Azerbaijan and Armenia, none of which can really be claimed to be European. No, you’ve misunderstood. Mexico doesn’t normally play in the South American tournament, but may be invited to play one year, because every year a guest from the other organisation is invited. It’s not the same as UEFA defining Israel as a “European” country. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/49 "2005-02-26T09:28:20Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > The European leagues usually go from Fall to Spring (October to May, IIRC). In Europe, soccer is more of a cold weather game. In the US, MLS is played in the summer, mostly because of less sports competition (only baseball is around then… well that and NASCAR). The League of Ireland went to a “summer” schedule two years ago (it runs from March to October) in an attempt to increase crowd sizes. Jury’s still out, I think. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/50 "2005-02-26T09:37:51Z")
> [@+MDI](#): > > \ > I feel no league even comes close to being as exciting as the Premiership. Spanish and Italian league players may have all the skill in the world, but for me, games are painful to watch due to the absurd amount of diving that is tolerated in those games by referees. While the football may be technically excellent, I simply can’t get excited over a game which is halted every thirty seconds for a free kick. > \ Also IMHO, of course, but I’d much rather watch the Spanish league. I personally think the EPL is extremely overrated as a league. A few very good teams at the top, but the rest of it is rarely worth watching at all. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/51 "2005-02-26T15:16:21Z")
I agree with you that the EPL is way overrated on a technical level. The quality of football and skill-levels of certain players (Danny Mills as an international-level right back?) can be miserable compared to Spain and Italy. I’m with **+MDI** though, the competition and inherent excitement, combined with a reasonable overall technical level still makes the EPL a better spectacle. One thing that irritates me about La Liga is that the teams don’t play for ninety minutes. Its just my impression, but when teams are 1 or 2-0 down with twenty minutes to go, they tend to throw in the towel. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/52 "2005-02-26T15:32:44Z")
> [@eponymous](#): > > Note: For those that know, what teams has made it from the lowest ranks to the highest? I know it’s more commonly known of the teams that have dropped than vice versa (York, for example). I’m a little surprised that our resident Swansea City fan **Vetch** hasn’t popped in to tell us all about his team’s meteoric rise from the old Fourth Division to the very top of the league within the space of four seasons, during John Toshack’s glorious reign of 1978 to 1983. Perhaps it’s because they were soon relegated all the way back to where they came from. Makes a nice parabola if you plot their league position on a graph. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/53 "2005-02-26T18:06:33Z")
Again, thanks for all the great info guys. Another question – where does the “hooliganism” fit into the picture? Is it a problem in the EPL, or the lower divisions? Or is it mainly a national team issue? (Is it even an issue anymore? I know it was a problem previously.) ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/54 "2005-02-26T18:33:11Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I noticed no one answered the question about season (since everything else has been answered, why not ;)). The European leagues usually go from Fall to Spring (October to May, IIRC). In Europe, soccer is more of a cold weather game. Russia and some east-European countries have a “mid-winter” break of a couple of months during the very coldest weather. Although it is a winter game there are limits and it is almost impossible to play with too much snow and very ,very low temperatures. Don’t forget that is is an outdoor game with no covered stadia. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/55 "2005-02-26T19:40:31Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > No, you’ve misunderstood. Mexico doesn’t normally play in the South American tournament, but may be invited to play one year, because every year a guest from the other organisation is invited. It’s not the same as UEFA defining Israel as a “European” country. Right. I think the last Gold Cup had Brazil and South Korea as guests. Copa America usually has Mexico & Costa Rica (I think…the U.S. used to go, but we don’t like the disruption to the MLS season this would cause). Personally, I think this is a dumb idea. But I’m sure it’s the money that’s driving this decision. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/56 "2005-02-26T19:42:34Z")
> [@shelbo](#): > > Another question – where does the “hooliganism” fit into the picture? Is it a problem in the EPL, or the lower divisions? Or is it mainly a national team issue? (Is it even an issue anymore? I know it was a problem previously.) It was more of a '70s/'80s cultural phenomenon, affecting teams in all divisions of the English league (not Scotland or Ireland, though, whose fans have always had a good reputation), and has been pretty much stamped out, or has died out of its own accord, some popular theories being that football has become a middle class sport, or that the thugs have become middle class like everybody else. Anyway, Eastern European countries have picked up the hooligan baton to some extent, but the penalties for having unruly fans are so severe now that national football associations go out of their way to disassociate themselves from any unruly fans. The British government even attempts to stop known football hooligans from leaving the country during big international tournaments. In the domestic game, no, it’s not a big problem any more. The days of opposing “firms” arranging to fight each other and travelling en masse to do so are gone, although if you have a delicate disposition you might still be advised to avoid the vicinity of British football grounds and routes thereto on match days. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/57 "2005-02-26T19:44:55Z")
> [@shelbo](#): > > Another question – where does the “hooliganism” fit into the picture? Is it a problem in the EPL, or the lower divisions? Or is it mainly a national team issue? (Is it even an issue anymore? I know it was a problem previously.) Violence in general is still an issue, but nothing like the scale of 20 years ago. Pitched battles between groups of fans are pretty much a thing of the past, along with pitch invasions, etc. It’s down to various issues: better policing has helped, with bad policing at matches abroad has being a contributory factor in England fans causing trouble. All-seater stadiums have helped as well - in general, trouble inside the stadiums hardly exists any more. When it does (such as the coin-throwing at the Everton-Man U match last week) it’s unusual enough to make the national news. Apart from at high-profile matches, you can often see hardly a single policeman in the stadium. (On the other hand, they’re no doubt glued to CCTV screens elsewhere, something not possible in the 1970s.) Fights between drunken rival fans will perhaps always occur, but they’re more like a typical pub brawl than anything else. And they’ll often take place at predictable locations, ones which no ordinary fans go near. And no, it’s not mainly a premier league affair - if anything, the opposite. Clubs like Chelsea, once notorious for their hooligans, have cleaned up their act far better than ones such as Millwall or Cardiff. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/58 "2005-02-26T19:49:19Z")
> [@Usram](#): > > not **Scotland** or Ireland, though, whose fans have always had a good reputation. My bolding - :dubious: - ever heard of the Old Firm? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/59 "2005-02-26T19:55:31Z")
I knew someone would pick up on that as soon as I pressed Submit. I guess I meant that fans of the Scottish national team don’t have the reputation for violence that England fans do. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733/60 "2005-02-26T20:01:26Z")
Oh, OK, fair enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-basic-football-soccer-questions/291733.md?page=4)