# "Some blacks are just dumb and enjoy killing each other" - no warning issued, Tom? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 13, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511 "2018-08-13T08:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/181 "2018-08-16T20:48:49Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > …This seems to strongly suggest that trolling is worthy of banning, but not a warning. > > And yet there have been dozens of warnings on this board for trolling. Want some examples? The examples you gave were all of posters that had a much more extensive posting history (except one, but I was on the fence on that one too). This poster in question had about 30 posts IIRC. If someone trolls in their first foray into the boards, I’m going to ban them. Banning trolls is open season for any mod. I admit it’s a bit of a sliding scale, where people with a lot of history may get more leeway, hence trolling being the 4th most popular warning category. It’s not that trolling isn’t worthy of a warning, it’s that the post in question didn’t rise to the level that would yield a warning for trolling, in the context of that poster. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/182 "2018-08-16T21:06:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Awhile ago we had a poster on this board who peppered conversations with statements like, “Republicans hate women,” and, “Conservatives want brown people to die.” For awhile the mods told us we had to refute him civilly and with facts. > > But eventually they told him to knock it the fuck off. > > Mods, do you regret this decision? Would you give a different instruction to someone else who came to the boards with objectively incorrect, highly-insulting, stereotypical claims about a political ideology? Or do you think–as I do–that it was exactly the right call? > > If you agree with me, can you explain why making objectively incorrect, highly insulting, stereotypical claims about a racial/ethnic group is **less** deleterious to board culture? Then how would one be able to submit posts containing the bigoted triple whammy blaming old, white males for all the country’s woes? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/183 "2018-08-16T21:07:13Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Then how would one be able to submit posts containing the bigoted triple whammy blaming old, white males for all the country’s woes? I find those posts eye-rolling but basically harmless. Getting rid of them would be 100% fine with me if it means we get rid of the “scientific racist” posts and their ilk. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/184 "2018-08-16T21:16:02Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The record exists, though informally. This discussion, as well as mod loop discussion, ensures that aspect. At the time of the moderation, this discussion did not exist. So saying that is a reason that no record is needed doesn’t make sense. Anyway, we are always told that records are not kept for mod notes. If we are now counting “informal records”, then maybe we shouldn’t be told that anymore. The post in question and the moderator’s note will exist, and that serves as an “informal record”. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/185 "2018-08-16T23:29:00Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s not that trolling isn’t worthy of a warning, it’s that the post in question didn’t rise to the level that would yield a warning for trolling, in the context of that poster. This is pretty silly. If he had been a frequent poster, you would have warned him for trolling but because he isn’t you’d have to ban him. Since that seems a little harsh in this case then you can’t do anything. You are handcuffing yourselves for no logical reason. There are lots of different standards on trolling and “playing devil’s advocate” around the internet. Why should this one rule be treated so special that a newb can’t be corrected with a warning? ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/186 "2018-08-17T00:44:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Then how would one be able to submit posts containing the bigoted triple whammy blaming old, white males for all the country’s woes? That’s simple. Since you don’t recognize quantifying modifiers as weasel words, you could simply write, “All the country’s problems are the fault of most old, white males.” That wouldn’t ruffle feathers, right? Of course, I’ve never seen a post blaming _all_ the country’s problems on old, white males, but if you wanted to make such a comment, that seems like the way to go about it. Good luck defending it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/187 "2018-08-17T01:21:49Z")
Or, y’know, like I said, y’all could moderate “blacks are stupid” at least as heavily as you moderate “Republicans hate women.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/188 "2018-08-17T01:42:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Or, y’know, like I said, y’all could moderate “blacks are stupid” at least as heavily as you moderate “Republicans hate women.” Perhaps we need to merge this thread with the [Red Pill thread.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21151682&postcount=102) Read the last paragraph of that post. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/189 "2018-08-17T01:43:02Z")
Yes. It is interesting to compare this to the other thread, where a clearly political comment was made but imputed as a personal insult. In both cases the Mods have said it wasn’t the post, it was the history, thereby admitting warnings are pretty much arbitrary & capricious. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/190 "2018-08-17T02:04:55Z")
[Here’s a pretty interesting article on how one history-themed Reddit deals with Holocaust denial](https://slate.com/technology/2018/07/the-askhistorians-subreddit-banned-holocaust-deniers-and-facebook-should-too.html): with extreme prejudice. Its description of how Holocaust deniers engage should sound real familiar to anyone who’s read any of the Just Asking Questions scientific racist posts that crop up around here. Their description of how they deal with such posts will be novel and refreshing. I encourage folks, but especially mods and admins, to read what they’ve done, and consider how much better our board would be without the need to coddle racists. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/191 "2018-08-17T02:05:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Perhaps we need to merge this thread with the [Red Pill thread.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21151682&postcount=102) Read the last paragraph of that post. Yeah. Guy with one post total gets a warning for hate speech. Lucky he wasn’t trolling because he’d either be banned or let off with a note. ---
**Author:** ![Amara\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7993a0/32.png) [@Amara\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amara_1)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/192 "2018-08-17T04:00:01Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > People with racist beliefs have changed and renounced those beliefs. That alone is evidence that people can be swayed. I’m sure there are people that can not be swayed, but if we terminate all discussion on distasteful topics we deprive ourselves of the opportunity. This seems almost tangential to my post and doesn’t even address your fellow mod’s musing regarding political ideology. I agree that people _can_ change their beliefs which is why I used the word, “generally”. However this requires good faith in discussing the topic. Some additional points below: 1. Most importantly, this isn’t a fucking game or debate about gun rights or tax brackets. Arguing whether people are _inherently_ inferior isn’t a “political debate”; real people are getting hurt and affected by this. The problem is that racism directed at anyone against whites is treated differently on these boards from anything else. Discussions on other inherent characteristics like gender and sexual orientation are met with far more moderation. The mods were more willing to listen during the misogyny debacle a few months ago but don’t appear to be listening now even though it’s the exact same issue. The same result will happen where minorities leave or decline to participate and slowly you end up with a board dominated by racist beliefs. In other words, either be fair and apply the rules equally or just admit that a racist board is fine so that the rest of us can make our decisions but this continued game where racism isn’t tolerated except it’s “a discussion” to say that black people/Hispanics/brown people are inferior is dissembling bullshit. 2. The same posters repeat the exact, same arguments in thread after thread even after they are solidly refuted. Very often, they don’t engage with the refutation but simply continue to make post after post on the same topic. This isn’t good faith and instead is more like the “fake news” or “propaganda”. It’s incredibly difficult, if not impossible for anyone new to be aware of this or to get rational discussion. I give props to **MrDibble** for trying to counter the same arguments over and over because I won’t venture into those threads anymore. I know other people have done the same thing. This isn’t a discussion. And this isn’t new. There’s a [current thread in the Pit](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=824576) that also shows a poster who hasn’t even read his cites but somehow he **knows** black people are inferior. Here’s [**Marley23** back in 2011:](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=602950) > [@](#): > > Unfortunately the same few people post Reason X, regardless of the status of the evidence, any time Dopers are discussing Continent Y, and it has the effect of turning every discussion into a debate about Reason X. > > Do we have to maintain the euphemism here? Reason X is “black people are less intelligent than other races.” This contention is a constant in threads related to black culture or Africa. It’s generally made by the same few people, which turns all those threads into debates about the same few books and studies. So after the topic was broached yet again in the current thread (which is about what Africa would be like if not for colonialism), I said it was off-limits. I warned two posters for ignoring that instruction. I didn’t say the topic itself is verboten, and it isn’t. I said I’m weary of seeing it raised over and over again as a hijack and in spite of thorough rebuttals from other posters, so if this continues to happen I’m not going to be as patient with it as I have been. 1. Facebook, Apple and everyone except Twitter is starting to take their TOS regarding harassing or discrimination seriously. Letting posters continually and repeatedly target the intelligence and equality of groups containing other posters isn’t discussion; it’s harassment. Why is this board going in the other direction? In this case, you guys are turning yourself into logical pretzels trying to excuse given a warning to a racist post. The reasons provided aren’t consistent with past behavior. I’m just asking for fairness. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/193 "2018-08-17T04:16:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Yeah. Guy with one post total gets a warning for hate speech. Lucky he wasn’t trolling because he’d either be banned or let off with a note. The claim was “blacks are stupid” is not moderated as heavily as “Republicans hate women”. If you agree, prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/194 "2018-08-17T04:18:01Z")
@Amara\_ This is a good post. I’ll think on it. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/195 "2018-08-17T04:39:02Z")
@LHOD post #190. That is also a good post and article. I’ll think on it. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/196 "2018-08-17T04:56:10Z")
LHOD, thanks for posting that article. It articulated much of what I’ve been thinking but was too incoherent with anger to say. Every mod should read it. Then I hope a new policy emerges. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/197 "2018-08-17T05:50:43Z")
After reading that article I agree. (About policy change.) Also about what **Marley** said 7 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/198 "2018-08-17T07:58:35Z")
The standout bits from that article for me: > [@](#): > > **The point of JAQing off is not to debate facts. It’s to have an audience hear denialist lies in the first place.** Allowing their talking points to stand in public helps sow the seeds of doubt, even if only to one person in 10,000.[…] > To gauge whether a person is malicious or merely “ironic” is a futile exercise, for **to give Holocaust deniers’ positions a platform is to disseminate their propaganda**. To draw the line at overt calls for violence is equally insufficient. Holocaust denial serves Nazism, and Nazism is an ideology that at its very core advocates for violence. **The only way to fight this morally and factually wrong viewpoint is to deny these positions a platform**. This is the crucial lesson we have learned in running the AskHistorians forum.\*\* It is the lesson other platforms must emulate if they are sincere in fighting racism, anti-Semitism, and Nazism\*\* Replace denialist with racist, and Nazism with racism, and they could be talking directly to the mods here. I may have misjudged reddit - I thought it was merely a haven for racists, Red Pills, incels and GamerGaters, and that’s the way the CEO liked it. I mean, [read his take on it](https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/11/17226416/reddit-ceo-steve-huffman-racism-racist-slurs-are-okay)- it might have come from the keyboard of a mod here: > [@](#): > > I believe the best defense against racism and other repugnant views, both on Reddit and in the world, is instead of trying to control what people can and cannot say through rules, is to repudiate these views in a free conversation Might have to give some of these other saner subreddits that don’t buy into that bullshit a look-see - I wonder if someone maintains a list of good ones… ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/199 "2018-08-17T10:53:10Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The examples you gave were all of posters that had a much more extensive posting history (except one, but I was on the fence on that one too). This poster in question had about 30 posts IIRC. Yes, “this poster” has made 32 posts. Fifteen minutes before the post we’ve been discussing here he made [this post in which he discusses " Blacks’ soulless, tribal reaction to the first O.J. verdict".](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21140476&postcount=62) (S)he resurected a 2007 thread to point out “today we have blacks who’ve declared a grossly unfair war on the police while excusing daily murders among their own people, e.g. Chicago.” ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/200 "2018-08-17T15:47:21Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Yes, “this poster” has made 32 posts. Fifteen minutes before the post we’ve been discussing here he made [this post in which he discusses " Blacks’ soulless, tribal reaction to the first O.J. verdict".](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21140476&postcount=62) (S)he resurected a 2007 thread to point out “today we have blacks who’ve declared a grossly unfair war on the police while excusing daily murders among their own people, e.g. Chicago.” I guess the mod(s) must have missed that one when **taking into account the poster’s history.** That’s only 2 racist posts out of an entire 30. That’s definitely not a racist spewing racism that deserves a warning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511.md?page=11)