# "Some blacks are just dumb and enjoy killing each other" - no warning issued, Tom? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 13, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511 "2018-08-13T08:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/121 "2018-08-15T13:58:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’d happily accept moderation of broad brush insulting attacks on political affiliation if it meant that very obviously bigoted assertions like “(less-intelligent) blacks…” were also moderated. I find it very easy to avoid both. The problem with that is “(less intelligent) blacks…” isn’t quite so broad brush as “blacks…”. I’d hate to think what this board would be like if we went down that road. I think you would, too, since broad brush statements about Republicans and conservatives far outweigh such statements about Democrats and liberals. By a LOT. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/122 "2018-08-15T14:18:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The problem with that is “(less intelligent) blacks…” isn’t quite so broad brush as “blacks…”. We’ve already discussed this, but I don’t see how you disagree that the parentheses mean that it applies to all black people – if he just wanted to specify the less intelligent ones, he wouldn’t need parentheses. If I’m saying something about Trump supporters and want to tar them all as misogynists, I’ll say something like “the (misogynistic) Trump supporters will never vote for a woman”… if I just want to specify the particular misogynistic ones among the larger group, I’d say “misogynistic Trump supporters won’t vote for a woman”. > [@](#): > > I’d hate to think what this board would be like if we went down that road. I think you would, too, since broad brush statements about Republicans and conservatives far outweigh such statements about Democrats and liberals. By a LOT. I’ve criticized such broad brushing (of both sides) many times on this board. I don’t think it adds to GD conversations, and I think it’s easy to avoid. But I also don’t think it’s a particularly big deal – I’d just happily be willing to sacrifice it if that would also get rid of assertions about the supposed inferiority of black people, in the cause of making the board better. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/123 "2018-08-15T14:31:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ve criticized such broad brushing (of both sides) many times on this board. I don’t think it adds to GD conversations, and I think it’s easy to avoid. But I also don’t think it’s a particularly big deal – I’d just happily be willing to sacrifice it if that would also get rid of assertions about the supposed inferiority of black people, in the cause of making the board better. I would be opposed to outlawing broadbrush statements about adherents of political ideologies, despite the imbalance that John Mace noted. These are legitimate opinions, and can have a rational basis. They’re more likely to be heavily influenced by bias and emotion than more nuanced statements, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t be rational and legitimate positions. I’m not into this whole “fighting ignorance” bit, but I do think that once you start outlawing the expression of rational positions based on the fact that some people find those positions offensive, you make the board a lesser place for those who enjoy it for the interchange of ideas. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/124 "2018-08-15T14:39:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ve criticized such broad brushing (of both sides) many times on this board. I don’t think it adds to GD conversations, and I think it’s easy to avoid. But I also don’t think it’s a particularly big deal – I’d just happily be willing to sacrifice it if that would also get rid of assertions about the supposed inferiority of black people, in the cause of making the board better. Well, it’s nice you’re willing to sacrifice that but do you agree with the underlying principle? That discrimination based on political affiliation is equivalent in some way to discrimination based on race? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/125 "2018-08-15T14:40:56Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I would be opposed to outlawing broadbrush statements about adherents of political ideologies, despite the imbalance that John Mace noted. > > These are legitimate opinions, and can have a rational basis. They’re more likely to be heavily influenced by bias and emotion than more nuanced statements, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t be rational and legitimate positions. > > I’m not into this whole “fighting ignorance” bit, but I do think that once you start outlawing the expression of rational positions based on the fact that some people find those positions offensive, you make the board a lesser place for those who enjoy it for the interchange of ideas. That they can have a rational basis is the point of disagreement between us – I don’t think they can. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, it’s nice you’re willing to sacrifice that but do you agree with the underlying principle? That discrimination based on political affiliation is equivalent in some way to discrimination based on race? If this is directed at me – no, I do not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/126 "2018-08-15T14:45:19Z")
ISTM that much of the issue is the attempt to outlaw statements that are not broad-brush, when some Dopers insist that a specific assertion is meant to apply universally. Witness the attempt to characterize “some” as a weasel word. Some X do Y. “You are accusing all members of X\* of doing Y!” See post #53 for an example. Regards, Shodan \*For certain values of X. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/127 "2018-08-15T14:50:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We’ve already discussed this, but I don’t see how you disagree that the parentheses mean that it applies to all black people – if he just wanted to specify the less intelligent ones, he wouldn’t need parentheses. You don’t see or won’t see? I already explained why I disagree, since he also wrote: “Again, I think it’s the less intelligent blacks who are the main problem.” That is more consistent with my interpretation than yours. Note that “again” means it’s something that was already said. ---
**Author:** ![Amara\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7993a0/32.png) [@Amara\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amara_1)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/128 "2018-08-15T14:52:27Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Political affiliation is pretty dependent on the local culture in which one is raised. In a period such as the current one, labels are used to silence and humiliate people. I do not see a purpose in allowing a person to be silenced or humiliated simply because their world view, shaped by their life experience, differs from that of others. Unlike favorite foods or music, which one may choose or ignore by choosing one’s stores, restaurants, radio stations, or media sources, politics directly acts on one’s living conditions and the sort of attacks that we see, today, upon holders of different views are direct attacks on people’s psyches. When I first read this, I thought it was a parody. Comparing racism to political ideology _especially in today’s environment_ where the President of the US supports racism, hate crimes (where people are attacked and killed for the color of their skin and perceived religion) are on the rise and white supremacists openly march and celebrate the Presidency is a false equivalency and not a good look for this message board. Frankly, it’s openly insulting to me and I suspect other folks on this board. But then again since most of those offended aren’t white then who cares. Racism isn’t a logical decision and trying to counter it with rational arguments generally doesn’t work. It’s a hateful viewpoint and “debating” the intelligence and basic humanity of those who aren’t white isn’t a political disagreement or grounds for a debate. It’s openly agreeing that hateful speech is accepted so long as the targets are minorities. Similar viewpoints expressed against white people are, IMHO, more modded partially because more people get upset. This isn’t even-handed. There simply isn’t a comparison between an attack on something a person because of their skin color and because of their political identification. The entire justification of not providing a warning here (long time poster! low post count! Bending over backwards to provide an alternate explanation!)provides an appearance that racism is coddled and excused. This chases people away as it should. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/129 "2018-08-15T14:54:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You don’t see or won’t see? I already explained why I disagree, since he also wrote: > > “Again, I think it’s the less intelligent blacks who are the main problem.” > > That is more consistent with my interpretation than yours. Note that “again” means it’s something that was already said. Okay, fair enough. I think the fact that he used the parentheses first, along with the context and the rest of his post, makes his views on the intelligence of black people clear, but I understand you disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/130 "2018-08-15T15:01:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That they can have a rational basis is the point of disagreement between us – I don’t think they can. IMO it logically follows once you accept the notion that factors other than pure reason can influence political ideology. Because once you accept that, then it’s just a matter of assessing what factors might be in play and how prevalent they might be, in a given instance. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/131 "2018-08-15T15:05:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Witness the attempt to characterize “some” as a weasel word. “Some” _is_ a w[easel word](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word#Forms). > [@](#): > > See post #53 for an example. An example of _what_, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/132 "2018-08-15T15:08:00Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > IMO it logically follows once you accept the notion that factors other than pure reason can influence political ideology. > > Because once you accept that, then it’s just a matter of assessing what factors might be in play and how prevalent they might be, in a given instance. Then I think we disagree on what qualifies as a rational basis, because I don’t have a problem with that notion. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/133 "2018-08-15T15:39:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, fair enough. I think the fact that he used the parentheses first, along with the context and the rest of his post, makes his views on the intelligence of black people clear, but I understand you disagree. Cool. I’m not asking you to agree with me, but at least you can now “see” why I disagree with you. I will admit it’s not crystal clear, but generally I think it’s best practice to default to the more favorable interpretation if you are unable or unwilling to ask for clarification. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/134 "2018-08-15T15:47:58Z")
> [@Amara\_1](#): > > When I first read this, I thought it was a parody. Comparing racism to political ideology _especially in today’s environment_ where the President of the US supports racism, hate crimes (where people are attacked and killed for the color of their skin and perceived religion) are on the rise and white supremacists openly march and celebrate the Presidency is a false equivalency and not a good look for this message board. Frankly, it’s openly insulting to me and I suspect other folks on this board. But then again since most of those offended aren’t white then who cares. > > Racism isn’t a logical decision and trying to counter it with rational arguments generally doesn’t work. It’s a hateful viewpoint and “debating” the intelligence and basic humanity of those who aren’t white isn’t a political disagreement or grounds for a debate. It’s openly agreeing that hateful speech is accepted so long as the targets are minorities. Similar viewpoints expressed against white people are, IMHO, more modded partially because more people get upset. This isn’t even-handed. There simply isn’t a comparison between an attack on something a person because of their skin color and because of their political identification. > > The entire justification of not providing a warning here (long time poster! low post count! Bending over backwards to provide an alternate explanation!)provides an appearance that racism is coddled and excused. This chases people away as it should. Very well put. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/135 "2018-08-15T15:52:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > “Some” _is_ a w[easel word](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word#Forms). Not when used as I have described. > [@](#): > > An example of _what_, exactly? An example of the insistence that “some” and “all” are synonyms. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/136 "2018-08-15T16:11:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not when used as I have described. Do I care how you, of all people, have described it? No, I do not care a fig. I care how the person quoted in the OP used it, which was as a weasel word. > [@](#): > > An example of the insistence that “some” and “all” are synonyms. 's funny, I thought \*all \*it was, was a plain refusal to be drawn into a pointless side debate with you. In fact, I don’t see any of the words “some”, “all” or “synonyms” in post #53 at all. It’s so short, here, let me quote it in full: > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > Consider the following statements. > > Naah, I’m good, thanks. Nope. Maybe I need better glasses. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/137 "2018-08-15T17:22:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > “Some” _is_ a w[easel word](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word#Forms). > An example of _what_, exactly? Funny the extent people go to in order to undermine language. Some isn’t always a weasel word. Sometimes, oh no a weasel, it is evasive and sometimes it is exactly appropriate. You realize when discussing fuzzy sets such as groups of people nuance and adjectives can be very useful. I don’t see what is weasely or misandrist about a statement such as “some men are dangerous” or “many catholic priests are perverts.” That’s not so-called hate speech. And if it is so-called hate speech it is so broad as to be meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/138 "2018-08-15T17:25:43Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, it’s nice you’re willing to sacrifice that but do you agree with the underlying principle? That discrimination based on political affiliation is equivalent in some way to discrimination based on race? It’s close to discrimination based on religion. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/139 "2018-08-15T17:33:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s close to discrimination based on religion. Too bad we aren’t playing horseshoes or hand grenades. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511/140 "2018-08-15T20:48:29Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Too bad we aren’t playing horseshoes or hand grenades. If that’s the standard then no so called “analogies” are ever relevant. But you know that’s not actually the standard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-blacks-are-just-dumb-and-enjoy-killing-each-other-no-warning-issued-tom/819511.md?page=8)