# Some fair questions for Mitt Romney about Mormonism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 17, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419 "2010-04-17T00:45:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/201 "2010-04-23T02:00:55Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > But my question remains. Is it still doctrine that Black people are the descendants of Cain even though it is no longer cool to discriminate? Some interesting reading for you [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain#The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints) and [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_and_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints). ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/202 "2010-04-23T04:58:34Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I have no hate for Mormons. I give them a hell of a lot less thought and consideration than that. But I see them as more flawed than most religions and weirder. I think a bit less of anyone who is strongly religious. I prefer to be rooted in Science and logic. But there is a hierarchy . Not all religions are as demanding of their followers as the Mormons are. I dislike oppression. > I think the Catholics are wrong to limit priesthood to men. they have proven to all who can see what a terrible idea it is. Yet the Mormons did not learn that lesson. An all male ,unmarried priesthood has hurt the Catholics for generations. They keep paying for an old rule that proves it is harmful in so many ways. Yet they are too stupid to fix it. > What does any religion have to offer? When a religion starts to recruit you, you can be sure they are after your money. Yeah… but with Romney it isn’t clear that he is ‘strongly religious’- at least in public. In private, who knows? He could be prancing about in his magic underwear right now. But really I doubt he’s doing anything undecorous. The guy was Governor and a serious POTUS candidate. He’s not a big slouch and IMHO doesn’t need to be reprimanded for inappropriate politico-religious behavior. _He_ doesn’t make an issue of his Mormonism; everyone else does. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/203 "2010-04-23T05:03:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Some interesting reading for you [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain#The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints) and [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_and_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints). Well, thanks for clearing that up. It’s a “practice” to discriminate against Blacks, not a “doctrine”. I feel better already. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/204 "2010-04-23T05:24:26Z")
Excuse me? Where is the discriminaton _now_? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/205 "2010-04-23T06:46:49Z")
He lives in La Jolla, California now. His house is actually really easy to find on google earth. I was joking with my brother that he only lives about 10 miles from where he lives in SD. He made a comment about him being the guy rollerblading in a thong he sometimes sees. > **[Mitt Romney's New $12 Million California House](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mitt-romneys-new-12-milli_n_106424)** > > Mitt Romney's New $12 Million California House So go post your thread on his door. You can be the 21st century Martin Luther with his 95 thesis. Beware the hounds. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/206 "2010-04-23T11:53:04Z")
I think Marie Osmond has the answer for us all. Back in 2008, she told Larry King that we had the possibility of electing the first black President in Obama, the first woman President in Clinton, or the first Mormon President in Romney. Instead, Marie said we should take care of all three things at once and elect Gladys Knight. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/207 "2010-04-23T19:33:53Z")
IMO, it’s not _which_ religion you are, it’s _how_ religious you are. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/208 "2010-04-23T21:51:23Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Yes, I most certainly would apply the same logic to any group. I’d likely guess that the NBA feels that women are inferior in terms of either their ability at basketball, or their ability to draw a crowd to matches. Scholarships may be open only to or preferably to women because the college may feel women lack the level of support from schools or society to take on certain degrees. Militaries may feel women are less capable of fighting due to differences in general body type. Counseling centres focusing on women’s issues may feel that men lack the ability to identify as well with women as other women. I assume that we’re defining inferior as “lower in quality” or “of less importance”, as that’s what I see in my dictionary. In that case none of these examples constitute designating one gender as inferior. If you start reasoning from the assumption that all organizations and professions should have equal representation from both genders, then maybe you can justify the belief that any one that excludes a gender is treating that gender as inferior. But as I see no reason to start from that assumption, I don’t reach that conclusion. > [@](#): > > Perhaps more importantly, if you don’t know for sure, how is it you can be so very sure that the Church doesn’t consider women inferior? With your example reason there, it would imply that the Church believes women lack the ability to protect themselves, or that men are lacking in importance to protect. Again, i’m very confused that you’re so prepared to declare that there is no justification for saying something about the Church’s motivations - without knowing what they Church’s motivations are. I don’t think I would be prepared to declare such a strong position based upon admitted ignorance. I don’t believe that the Catholic Church views women as inferior for the same reason that I don’t believe that the moon landings were a hoax or that a huge Jewish civilization covered North and South America during biblical times. Plenty of people believe those things, but none can offer evidence for their truth. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/209 "2010-04-23T22:03:25Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Romney is a far superior candidate than most others for President and while I sincerely hope for his conversion but it is a purely spiritual one with no relevance in politics. People like you are what scare me about the Religious Right. Romney is a stuffed suit who changes his public positions for political expediency, & mostly holds to an unthoughtful free-market fundamentalism. Superficial buzzwords standing in for macroeconomic thought. Christianity is not the same as Reaganism. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/210 "2010-04-24T00:21:24Z")
> [@ITR Champion](#): > > 1. Our second question concerns the Great Endowment Ceremony performed in Mormon Temples. You are no doubt aware that until a few years ago, the ceremony required all initiates, some of whom were teenagers, to stand naked in front of adults, to have their entire bodies washed by adults, and to be touched on their breasts. Did you until 2005 approve of this procedure? If not, why did you choose to remain a member of the LDS church? This isn’t precisely accurate. You weren’t standing naked in front of anybody – you were covered by a “shield garment,” a big thick poncho-like arrangement that felt sort of like the lead apron they put on you at the dentist, and was slit up the sides. This allowed an attendant, who was a person of the same sex who was almost always a senior citizen who volunteered at the temple, to reach under and symbolically “wash and anoint” various parts of your body including the knee, the belly, and the chest. It does sound a little creepy if you haven’t gone through it, and for shy people it can be stressful, but in my experience … well, the attendant never actually touched me, except for a cursory wipe with a sponge. It wasn’t as bad as it sounds described above. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/211 "2010-04-24T15:20:14Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Yeah… but with Romney it isn’t clear that he is ‘strongly religious’- at least in public. In private, who knows? He could be prancing about in his magic underwear right now. But really I doubt he’s doing anything undecorous. > > The guy was Governor and a serious POTUS candidate. He’s not a big slouch and IMHO doesn’t need to be reprimanded for inappropriate politico-religious behavior. _He_ doesn’t make an issue of his Mormonism; everyone else does. Mormonism is s pretty demanding religion. It is similar to Scientology in that regard. To be a Mormon you have to accept a lot of restrictions and follow a very flawed religious system. If you have a religion like Buddhism that has no designs of taking over the world and is peaceful, I am behind you. If you follow an aggressive religion that creates enemies ,I am not behind you. Any religion like the Muslims that believe they should expand and conquer non believers, is not a religion. It is a political power movement disguised as one. If peace and not allowing other religions to coexist is not part of the teachings, it is not a religion. That is where the Christians fail. They have a long nasty history of cruelty to non believers and those they decided were heretics. That is not allowed in a religion. It is a political system that calls itself a religion. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/212 "2010-04-24T16:25:33Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Some interesting reading for you [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain#The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints) and [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_and_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints). So from what I can read the Church has not repudiated the idea that black people are descendants of Cain, but it is now OK for them to priests. It’s also interesting that the 1977 declaration says that the time has come to change the policy, not that it was wrong. In other words God changed his mind. Kind surprising that black people are comfortable in the church. On the other hand, there are still women that follow Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/213 "2010-04-24T16:49:42Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Mormonism is s pretty demanding religion. It is similar to Scientology in that regard. To be a Mormon you have to accept a lot of restrictions and follow a very flawed religious system. > If peace and not allowing other religions to coexist is not part of the teachings, it is not a religion. That is where the Christians fail. They have a long nasty history of cruelty to non believers and those they decided were heretics. That is not allowed in a religion. It is a political system that calls itself a religion. I’m comfortably sure that ‘not allowing other religions to coexist’ was never a plank in Romney’s platform. As for the rest… you realize Mormon != evangelical, no? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/214 "2010-04-24T17:13:37Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I’m comfortably sure that ‘not allowing other religions to coexist’ was never a plank in Romney’s platform. > > As for the rest… you realize Mormon != evangelical, no? I’ll remind them of that next time they knock on my door. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/215 "2010-04-24T18:09:41Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I’m comfortably sure that ‘not allowing other religions to coexist’ was never a plank in Romney’s platform. > > As for the rest… you realize Mormon != evangelical, no? So you are implying that Romney is a weak Mormon? I don’t know that. Do you? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/216 "2010-04-24T18:23:05Z")
[http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0509.sullivan1.html](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0509.sullivan1.html) This article suggests that the bridge between Mormons and Southern Christians can not be crossed. That Romney will not be able to win over the religious right and that many see Mormonism as a cult. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/217 "2010-04-24T21:15:06Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > So from what I can read the Church has not repudiated the idea that black people are descendants of Cain, but it is now OK for them to priests. It’s also interesting that the 1977 declaration says that the time has come to change the policy, not that it was wrong. In other words God changed his mind. Part of the LDS church’s doctrine of “ongoing revelation” is that the leader of the church, officially called the “Prophet”, receives perfect revelations from God, and thus the Prophet cannot lead the church into error when acting on these revelations. (In other words, Mormons have a doctrine similar to what many people wrongly accuse the Catholic Church of having.) Not surprisingly, this has left the LDS church stuck with a whole lot of absurd positions which they can’t officially deny without undermining the basis of their own authority. Their main response to statements by Prophets such as dark skin being as mark of moral inferiority, Jesus having multiple wives, Adam being God, and others is too avoid talking about these things as much as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/218 "2010-04-24T21:28:45Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Their main response to statements by Prophets such as dark skin being as mark of moral inferiority, Jesus having multiple wives, Adam being God, and others is too avoid talking about these things as much as possible. Thank goodness mainstream Christianity never ignores stupid bullshit written in its holy books. :rolleyes: You really really love Superman. And it pisses you off that there is a dude across the room wearing a Captain Marvel shirt. You say “Great Krypton” and he says “Shazam”. You’re both nerds and you shouldn’t be talking about how his guy is powered by a magic word when your guy gets laser-beam eyes from the sun. In the framework of this metaphor, the atheist is too busy boning hot chicks to read comics. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/219 "2010-04-24T22:46:36Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > In other words God changed his mind. No, those would be the _exact_ words. > [@DanBlather](#): > > Kind surprising that black people are comfortable in the church. On the other hand, there are still women that follow Catholicism. I don’t understand how any woman with even a shred of self-esteem can embrace Mormonism. . ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/220 "2010-04-24T23:16:52Z")
I’ll go with “What are Golden Plates and Magical Underpants, Mr Romney?” for a thousand, Alex. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419.md?page=12)