# Some fair questions for Mitt Romney about Mormonism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 17, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419 "2010-04-17T00:45:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/21 "2010-04-17T07:50:48Z")
I’m sorry, but asking Romney these sorts of questions would amount to nothing more than an attack on his (constitutionally protected, private, personal) beliefs specifically and the Mormon faith generally. If you want to attack Mormonism, do it- it’s a damned easy target, as you’ve demonstrated. But doing this through the guise of criticizing Romney is silly. If Romney has made _public_ defenses of the church, then those are fair grounds to question him on. Drawing equivalency between Romney’s beliefs and the actions of his church is a little silly, too- a person can remain convinced of his religious faith without accepting the actions of the central body of that faith, as the recent crises in the Catholic Church demonstrate. This sort of thing is reminiscent of the questioning from the press that John Kennedy faced, too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/22 "2010-04-17T08:02:10Z")
How are his religious beliefs at all relevant to his proposed political policies? Not at all. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/23 "2010-04-17T08:30:54Z")
I demand the press hound him on about the initials LDS used by this religion. It’s almost as if Mormons are all on and promoting the use of acid. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/24 "2010-04-17T09:23:46Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **ITR champion** , I presume that you had no problem with people mocking John Kerry and John Kennedy and have no problem regarding the mocking of every future Catholic candidate regarding Transubstantiation, the creation of Jewish ghettoes, pedophilia among priests, and any number of other issues related to Catholicism. Given the number of threads that you start for the sake of attempting to defend your beliefs, I am a bit surprised that you have decided to attack a candidate for his religious beliefs. It is unseemly. > [@appleciders](#): > > I’m sorry, but asking Romney these sorts of questions would amount to nothing more than an attack on his (constitutionally protected, private, personal) beliefs specifically and the Mormon faith generally. If you want to attack Mormonism, do it- it’s a damned easy target, as you’ve demonstrated. But doing this through the guise of criticizing Romney is silly. If Romney has made _public_ defenses of the church, then those are fair grounds to question him on. Drawing equivalency between Romney’s beliefs and the actions of his church is a little silly, too- a person can remain convinced of his religious faith without accepting the actions of the central body of that faith, as the recent crises in the Catholic Church demonstrate. This sort of thing is reminiscent of the questioning from the press that John Kennedy faced, too. Ditto these. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/25 "2010-04-17T09:30:34Z")
I know I shouldn’t, but it’s hard to take seriously someone who believes that the lost tribes of Israel came to North America and that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Is that really someone we want to trust with the nuclear launch codes? Talking snakes and virgin births are silly too, but they at least have a couple thousand years of murkiness to them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/26 "2010-04-17T09:43:05Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Talking snakes and virgin births are silly too, but they at least have a couple thousand years of murkiness to them. Irrelevant, really. Mormonism, Catholicism; Buddhism; Scientology; Hinduism; Islam; it’s all equally silly. Old & stupid is just as stupid as new & stupid. If you are going to condemn one for being irrational you should condemn them all equally. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/27 "2010-04-17T09:43:48Z")
So, religion in general but Christianity in specific is inherently superior to atheism, produces smarter, more effective students and better citizens in general and is eminently rational and cogent. Unless it’s the _wrong type of Christianity_, and then it’s a bar to public office and we need to get to the bottom of it right away. Kay. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/28 "2010-04-17T13:08:12Z")
I oppose Romney a lot more for his total reversals on policy, which IMHO left him on the wrong side of those issues, than for the wackiness and secretiveness of Mormonism. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/29 "2010-04-17T13:35:06Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > How are his religious beliefs at all relevant to his proposed political policies? Not at all. “Proposed” is the operative word. Romney is known for his reversals of policy. Strip Romney down to his hidden agenda and you have Glen Beck. Okay,okay, I’m not really serious. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/30 "2010-04-17T13:37:23Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I did have the impression that you and many others around here had a problem with Bush’s fundamentalist Christian beliefs. Only to the extent that he opposed abortion, same sex marriage, and other social issues because of them. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/31 "2010-04-17T14:17:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > the ceremony does not say that “Christians are in league with Satan.” > > . However, the ceremony DID show a traditional Christian preacher as a hireling of Satan. To the OP. it’s Kolob, not Kobol. As to if Mormons are Christians, they are worshippers of God the Father & Jesus Christ & the Holy Spirit. However, the CoJCoLDS do not define Them the same way traditional Christianity does. THAT is the main point of controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/32 "2010-04-17T15:23:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t think Bush is really a fundamentalist, but I never cared about his beliefs. I cared to whatever extent he wanted to codify them into law, but that’s not the same thing. Actually former President Bush is a liberal Methodist. Apparently people nowadays equate social conservative with religious fundamentalist. > [@FriarTed](#): > > However, the ceremony DID show a traditional Christian preacher as a hireling of Satan. > > To the OP. it’s Kolob, not Kobol. > > As to if Mormons are Christians, they are worshippers of God the Father & Jesus Christ & the Holy Spirit. However, the CoJCoLDS do not define Them the same way traditional Christianity does. THAT is the main point of controversy. Well they reject the Nicene view of the Trinity and have rather unorthodox views on the afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/33 "2010-04-17T15:39:10Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Also, you are no doubt aware that until 1990 the Great Endowment Ceremony included the “Penalties”. This meant that initiates were required to swear that they would never tell the truth about this ceremony to anyone outside the church, and that they deserved to die if they did so. Initiates would then draw their fingers across their throats and lower torso, symbolizing the fact that they deserved to have their throats cut and their intestines ripped out if they ever told the truth. I will remind you again that many initiates were teenagers. Did you believe until 1990 that this portion of the ceremony was acceptable? LOL. Most Catholic churches have images of mutilated torture victims on display where small children can see them and ask their members to engage in ritual cannibalism. Asking teenagers to swear to disembowel themselves seems pretty tame by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/34 "2010-04-17T15:40:43Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Well they reject the Nicene view of the Trinity and have rather unorthodox views on the afterlife. The same two things can be said of the Jehovah’s witnesses, but nobody says they aren’t Christians. Trying to define Christianity as being exclusive to only trinitarian versions is just a Scotman. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/35 "2010-04-17T15:51:11Z")
I’ll add that it’s always funny when someone who follows a mainstream religion takes issue with the bizarre rituals of Mormonism, or Scientology, or Wicca, or Rastafarianism, or whatever. Here’s a little hint: \*\*Your own religious beliefs and practices look _exactly as kinky and kooky when viewed from the outside._ You’re just so accustomed to them you don’t notice. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/36 "2010-04-17T15:54:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The same two things can be said of the Jehovah’s witnesses, but nobody says they aren’t Christians. Trying to define Christianity as being exclusive to only trinitarian versions is just a Scotman. I suppose they could be called “Christians” in the sense they call themselves such and derive their theology from the Bible. However they’re in great error theologically speaking about as much as the Muslims which in a sense is a branch of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/37 "2010-04-17T16:03:48Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > LOL. Most Catholic churches have images of mutilated torture victims on display where small children can see them and ask their members to engage in ritual cannibalism. Asking teenagers to swear to disembowel themselves seems pretty tame by comparison. As someone raised Catholic, I have to say that it’s hard for me to appreciate just how horrifying the whole “ritualistic cannibalism” must seem to someone not raised in the Christian tradition. Although many probably slough it off as merely symbolic, it was pounded into my head by the nuns that the host was the actual body of Christ, not something symbolic. Oh, and then the blood… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/38 "2010-04-17T16:05:20Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > However they’re in great error theologically speaking … . How can you tell? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/39 "2010-04-17T16:05:44Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I suppose they could be called “Christians” . . . However they’re in great error theologically A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ. And each individual gets to define and interpret what that means. Period. You don’t get to label everybody else’s beliefs. As a matter of fact, I’m pretty sure J-Dogg would not be cool with that. Better repent. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/40 "2010-04-17T16:18:02Z")
Way back in 1994, when Romney was running for Ted Kennedy’s Senate seat (sorry, “the people’s seat”) he was asked about the past racism of his church. I believe he claimed to have been against the church’s policies at the time. Given that his father was known for strongly supporting civil rights while Governor of Michigan in the 60’s even as he was criticized by his church, he certainly had some credibility in doing so. The whole issue pretty much backfired on the Kennedy campaign, though, of course, they did still win. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419.md?page=3)