# Some fair questions for Mitt Romney about Mormonism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 17, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419 "2010-04-17T00:45:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/141 "2010-04-21T00:36:06Z")
What do you think Satanism is, and how is it negative? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/142 "2010-04-21T00:41:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What do you think Satanism is, and how is it negative? Real Satanism is atheists who use occultic mumbo-jumbo to promote ideals of a self-centred philosophy which they believe Satan represents. It is just not lack of religion but anti-religion and it will devestate our international prestige. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/143 "2010-04-21T00:43:19Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I don’t much mind the religion of the candidate in an election but I would not vote for a Satanist (either LaVeyan or Luciferian) because I believe anyone who believes in such a negative philosophy should not lead a nation. As opposed to all the Christians who among other things typically think everyone is a sinner and the end of the world would be a great idea? Christianity is a tremendously negative religion. If that’s an important criteria for you, you should go for some New Age The Universe Is a Friendly Place style religion. Not old gloom-and-doom, guilt and sin Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/144 "2010-04-21T00:48:28Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > **gonzomax** : Didn’t you already do the RO thing about Mountain Meadows and find out that there was no evidence that the perpetrators were anyone else other than the locals? Regardless of whether **gonzomax** has done the RO thing, etc., there is no question that the ambience which encouraged and enabled the Mountain Meadows Massacre was created by Brigham Young, amongst others. Whether they actually directed it is still open to debate. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/145 "2010-04-21T00:51:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As opposed to all the Christians who among other things typically think everyone is a sinner Well we humans aren’t perfect are we? We are inclined to commit certain bad things by nature (ie lying). > [@](#): > > and the end of the world would be a great idea? No, most Christians I think wouldn’t want the world to end tomorrow. > [@](#): > > Christianity is a tremendously negative religion. It has not stopped most of it’s adherents as politicians to enact wise and constructive policy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/146 "2010-04-21T00:51:36Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Real Satanism is atheists who use occultic mumbo-jumbo to promote ideals of a self-centred philosophy which they believe Satan represents. It is just not lack of religion but anti-religion and it will devestate our international prestige. Have you ever actually met a Satanist or read any Satanist scripture? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/147 "2010-04-21T00:51:59Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Real Satanism is atheists who use occultic mumbo-jumbo to promote ideals of a self-centred philosophy which they believe Satan represents. It is just not lack of religion but anti-religion and it will devestate our international prestige. Would you vote for a millenial Christian who felt his/her duty to God to enable the millenium greater than his/her duty to obey a sworn vow to protect and defend the United States? I’ll add that Satanists are certainly religious, and, in mild curiousity, I’ll ask if you define anti-religious as anti-Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/148 "2010-04-21T00:53:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > > > I don’t much mind the religion of the candidate in an election but I would not vote for a Satanist (either LaVeyan or Luciferian) because I believe anyone who believes in such a negative philosophy should not lead a nation. > > As opposed to all the Christians who among other things typically think everyone is a sinner and the end of the world would be a great idea? Christianity is a tremendously negative religion. If that’s an important criteria for you, you should go for some New Age The Universe Is a Friendly Place style religion. Not old gloom-and-doom, guilt and sin Christianity. Might I suggest one which teaches [“Men are that they might have joy”](http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/2/25#25) and [“Wickedness never was happiness”](http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/41/10#10)? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/149 "2010-04-21T00:54:05Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Would you vote for a millenial Christian who felt his/her duty to God to enable the millenium greater than his/her duty to obey a sworn vow to protect and defend the United States? Depends. I must rationally consider everything. For instance would he intentionally start a nuclear war? > [@](#): > > I’ll add that Satanists are certainly religious, and, in mild curiousity, I’ll ask if you define anti-religious as anti-Christianity. No, they seem to be against Judaism, Islam, the Vedic religions, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/150 "2010-04-21T00:56:41Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No, they seem to be against Judaism, Islam, the Vedic religions, etc. Christianity is against those, too, sometimes quite violently. Is Christianity Satanism? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/151 "2010-04-21T00:57:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Have you ever actually met a Satanist or read any Satanist scripture? I have. I served with two Satanists aboard my first ship in the Navy. Both of them were very nice people and were dedicated Sailors. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/152 "2010-04-21T01:01:00Z")
At this point, to be responsive to the point of the thread, I’ll note that it is just about impossible in the United States to vote for a politician who does not claim to be a believer in a Judeo-Christian religion of one form or another. Even Islam is an offshoot of Judaism. I do not pay much attention to a politician’s religion; I pay attention to his political views and to his actions on those political views, and that is what drives my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/153 "2010-04-21T01:03:01Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Well we humans aren’t perfect are we? We are inclined to commit certain bad things by nature (ie lying). Irrelevant, since you were complaining about Satanism being negative; talking about how people are “inclined to commit certain bad things by nature” is certainly negative, true or not. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No, most Christians I think wouldn’t want the world to end tomorrow. Millions do. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It has not stopped most of it’s adherents as politicians to enact wise and constructive policy. But only when they are willing to keep their religion to themselves and not try to push it on the nation in general. Which is true of any religion; I’d far prefer a Satanist (or Hindu, Mormon or whatever) who is inclined to leave me alone over a Christian who wants me to live the One True Way whether I want to or not. Or who intends to start a nuclear war, or destroy the environment because Jesus will come again once the last tree is cut down, or who opposes scientific research because God Says So. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/154 "2010-04-21T01:08:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Irrelevant, since you were complaining about Satanism being negative; talking about how people are “inclined to commit certain bad things by nature” is certainly negative, true or not. But it’s true. > [@](#): > > Millions do. Only in the theoretical sense. They probably wouldn’t push the button starting the apocalypse even if it’s because they want to save more people. > [@](#): > > But only when they are willing to keep their religion to themselves and not try to push it on the nation in general. Which is true of any religion; I’d far prefer a Satanist (or Hindu, Mormon or whatever) who is inclined to leave me alone over a Christian who wants me to live the One True Way whether I want to or not. Or who intends to start a nuclear war, or destroy the environment because Jesus will come again once the last tree is cut down, or who opposes scientific research because God Says So. [ Who are unelectable extremnists. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/155 "2010-04-21T01:09:28Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No, they seem to be against Judaism, Islam, the Vedic religions, etc. How does that make Satanists different from any other religion that opposes those who believe differently? Seriously, you do not view those who believe in Satan as a religion? A variation on any number of more popular religions that posit an evil entity in opposition? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/156 "2010-04-21T01:13:58Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > How does that make Satanists different from any other religion that opposes those who believe differently? Seriously, you do not view those who believe in Satan as a religion? A variation on any number of more popular religions that posit an evil entity in opposition? LaVeyan Satanists are atheists who’ve combined Randian philosophy with occultic mumbo-jumbo. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/157 "2010-04-21T01:16:59Z")
They sound at least vaguely religious to me. As far as I know, religion doesn’t specifically require deities. That is to say, religion doesn’t specifically require the belief in deities. As far as I know, no religion actually _has_ a deity because there’s no evidence deities exist. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/158 "2010-04-21T01:25:57Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > But it’s true. So? It’s still negative and negativity was what you were complaining about. And again; Christianity is a religion overflowing with negativity. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Only in the theoretical sense. They probably wouldn’t push the button starting the apocalypse even if it’s because they want to save more people. And why would I think that? After all, from their viewpoint dropping a nuke on someone IS saving them; if they deserve to be saved they go to heaven. And they constantly try to bring about the end of the world; Falwell spent years trying to convince Reagan to start a nuclear war so the the world would end. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Who are unelectable extremnists. Hardly; I was thinking of James Watt of the Reagan Administration when I posted that. There IS no belief so extreme as to make you unelectable, as long as it is a Christian one. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/159 "2010-04-21T01:28:35Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > LaVeyan Satanists are atheists who’ve combined Randian philosophy with occultic mumbo-jumbo. Only half true. LaVeyan Satanists are believers in Satan who’ve combined Randian philosophy with occultic mumbo-jumbo. Look, answer me squarely: people who believe in Satan are members of a religion. True or False? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419/160 "2010-04-21T01:53:22Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Well we humans aren’t perfect are we? What does “perfect” mean? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fair-questions-for-mitt-romney-about-mormonism/536419.md?page=9)