# Some fat people are their own worst enemies **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118 "2003-07-22T11:52:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/81 "2003-07-22T18:48:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Janie Jones \* > **The question still remains, how does a society – for the overall good of the society – change individual habits?** We hold forums and seminars, pound our fists on tables and demand changes and legislation for the greater good. :rolleyes: \*\* > [@](#): > > I say: > > (1) Deliver positive public health messages, aimed at telling folks the only successful healthy diet mantra there is: Eat less, exercise more. That’s O.K. as far as it goes, but it’s obvious that this is effective only to a point. ('Merkins are stll grossly overweight.)\*\* This won’t work. \*\* > [@](#): > > (2) The above-mentioned incentives. Why not? If the problem is people stuffing unhealthy food down their mouths in large quantities, then take steps to make unhealthy food less prevalent. \*\* Normally healthy food in enormous quantities can be bad as well, so don’t forget to ban healthy food as well. \*\* > [@](#): > > Would it kill manufactures to substitute healthier oils such as canola oil or olive oil for the very much used artery-clogging palm oil?\*\* It might, as healthier may be more expensive. \*\* > [@](#): > > But if a government implements regulations eliminating the economic penalty for using higher-priced oils, then that’s a good thing, right?\*\* No because it’s the higher priced oils that are fucking them over, not the penalty. \*\* > [@](#): > > Governments do this sort of thing all the time in other industries, i.e., drug companies, petroleum companies, etc. They can’t sell tainted medicines or put lead in gasoline. But more important, drug companies get tax breaks for making medicines more accessible to people who otherwise couldn’t afford them. And petroleum companies have incentives to make cleaner blends that pollute less when burned in car engines.\*\* You don’t get it do ya? It’s about maintaining a healthy diet, which varies between individuals. _Anything_ in excess is bad, be it Big Macs or apples. \*\* > [@](#): > > But if **incentives** for the food industry don’t strike your fancy, how about **disincentives** for the junk-food-eating consumers? Most every country has sin taxes on ciggies and booze, so why not sin taxes on Big Macs? \*\* No, because this fucks the people who like to enjoy the occasional Big Mac. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/82 "2003-07-22T18:50:20Z")
Janie: The problem is that there is nothing wrong or unhealthy about a Big Mac, nor is there anything wrong with deep-fried food or palm oil. These are all tasty and nutritious things. When your body needs a Big Mac, a Big Mac is good for it. The problem is not the food, it’s the person eating it. After a marathon there’s nothing like a King-sized value meal or three from Burger King, IMO. On the other hand, it’s not a good choice for dinner if I’ve had a big breakfast, a big lunch, snacked on potato chips and haven’t exercised. It’s not the food, it’s the person eating it. That person is responsible for their own decisions. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/83 "2003-07-22T18:52:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Janie Jones \* > **The question still remains, how does a society – for the overall good of the society – change individual habits?** It is not nor should not be incumbent on society to change individual habits. \*\* > [@](#): > > I say: > > (1) Deliver positive public health messages, aimed at telling folks the only successful healthy diet mantra there is: Eat less, exercise more. That’s O.K. as far as it goes, but it’s obvious that this is effective only to a point. ('Merkins are stll grossly overweight.)\*\* Fine by me.\*\* > [@](#): > > (2) The above-mentioned incentives. Why not? If the problem is people stuffing unhealthy food down their mouths in large quantities, then take steps to make unhealthy food less prevalent. Would it kill manufactures to substitute healthier oils such as canola oil or olive oil for the very much used artery-clogging palm oil?\*\* No, it wouldn’t kill manufactures to use healthier oils. Some do. Visit stores like Trader Joe’s or Whole Foods to purchase foods like these. Please note they have the same amount of calories and will do nothing to promote weight loss.\*\* > [@](#): > > At the moment, yes, because palm oil is cheaper. But if a government implements regulations eliminating the economic penalty for using higher-priced oils, then that’s a good thing, right?\*\* I don’t get this. What economic penalties are in place for using oils that are more expensive? \*\* > [@](#): > > But if **incentives** for the food industry don’t strike your fancy, how about **disincentives** for the junk-food-eating consumers?\*\* Why should there be external disincentives for junk food eating consumers. If I want a bag of potato chips, I already have a disincentive. Knowing I’ll have to probably skip dessert or opt for a lower calorie dessert later that evening is a good enough disincentive for me.\*\* > [@](#): > > Most every country has sin taxes on ciggies and booze, so why not sin taxes on Big Macs? \*\* Because it’s stupid. Why should I pay extra because some people don’t know when to stop eating or have trouble making the right choices? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/84 "2003-07-22T18:52:39Z")
You know what I had for breakfast yesterday? About two pounds of chocolate. Maybe five Hershey bars worth. I followed that up with a huge bowl of coconut milk laden Thai curry. For dinner I had chips and soda. Somewhere in between I had a big slice of cake. And I’ve never even been inside of a gym. But nobody will ever speak ill of me, because I weigh barely over 100 lbs. I can’t figure out why I can eat like mad and not gain weight, if metabolism isn’t a factor. Or maybe you just expect fat people with slow metabolism to be skull crushingly hungry all the time. Clearly our bodies vary in the way that they process food. I’m not “choosing” to weight 100 lbs. That is where my body reaches some sort of equilibrium. Eating less than you expend may be easy for you, but it can be next to impossible for somebody else. And since when is eating a donut a moral decision? It’s not like she’s locking her kid in a car during the summer or anything. She’s eating a donut. Why is it okay for me to have one but some great sin if she does? She’s just eating breakfast, and frankly a two to four hundred calorie breakfast isn’t anywhere near excessive. For all you know, she has terminal cancer and is going to die in three months anyway. Would it be okay for her to have a donut then? Maybe she just doesn’t mind being fat. There is nothing immoral about that. At least, it’s not any more immoral than driving your car, which is pretty darn likely to kill you. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/85 "2003-07-22T18:54:49Z")
Darn you, World Eater! Don’t you have a world to eat or something? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/86 "2003-07-22T19:00:15Z")
I bet we both carve the thanksgiving turkey the same way too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/87 "2003-07-22T19:01:40Z")
We’ll be seeing **Janie** in about a month. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/88 "2003-07-22T19:19:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*FYI- **norinew** that was **elfje** you were quoting not **elfje6** , which sounds close enough to my name that I was wondering when the hell I said something like _that_. > > More importantly, good luck with your struggle. Hopefully with your better understanding of some of the causes (which I found to be compelling arguments) you will have a leg up on staying healthy for yourself and your family. I hope you have an active activity which you enjoy (for me, its cycling) which helps you get out and burn some stress and calories at the same time. > > This **elf** does sympathise with you, and is pulling for you. > > 🙂 \*\* I am **so** sorry about the id mix-up; pure laziness on my part; I was composing my post and didn’t feel like scrolling up to double check who I was responding to, and relied on my memory. As far as an activity that I enjoy, no such luck. I do go to the gym twice a week and take a yoga class on Wednesdays. At the gym I do 30 minutes of cardio, followed by an hour of circuit weight training. I don’t enjoy it, but I do it because I know it’s necessary. I go to the gym because that’s how to get fit. The yoga’s not bad. It’s possible that as I get more and more fit, I may come to enjoy working out. . .or not. It doesn’t matter. I’ll do it because I have to do it. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/89 "2003-07-22T19:55:55Z")
The world you fatbashers live in is simple and uncomplicated . . . and unreal. The real world is a great deal more complicated; so your instant assumptions about a person about which you know ONE thing may not have taken into account enough information to make an informed judgment. Walk a mile, assholes. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/90 "2003-07-22T19:56:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nisosbar \* > \*\*Not long ago, I was out at one of those coffee/bagel carts in Midtown Manhattan, buying a coffee, and in front of me was this really obese woman buying a big doughnut - so obese, she seemed to have difficulty breathing and couldn’t walk properly due to fat deposits on her legs. Part of me wanted to bark at her about the stupidity of her eating habits! > > Why don’t people care about themselves? ☹ It truly depresses me to see people throw their lives away. \*\* **nisobar** , you hit the nail right on the head with your subject title. Obesity,or rather it’s cause, isn’t just the simple-minded “people eat too much and don’t exercise enough”. The psychology of WHY people overeat is key in determining how they first “got overweight” and further what is KEEPING them overweight. And then later in helping them lose it, IF that is what they desire. If you don’t know the “WHY” of it, all the exercise programs and Atkins diets in the world aren’t going to be PERMANENTLY (key word here) successful. Some people who are overweight are perfectly okay with their lifestyle choice. Even when it does threaten their health. Some desparately want to change, but really don’t know how. And the diet ninny’s mantra of “eat less, exercise more” does NOT help these people if they don’t understand the physiology behind fat loss. A lot of overweight people, (the majority based on the millions the weight loss industry rakes in each year) have tried dozens of diets and exercise programs and for a lot of people, those who have ruined their metabolisms with yo-yo dieting, it becomes more and more difficult over the years, and so those people pretty much “give up” after so many failures. So No tarantula, it’s NOT a simplistic “if you’re obese don’t eat treats” answer (by the way, many of the MOST successful fat loss programs, “Body for Life,”” the new weight watchers” even Atkins [what’s more of a ‘treat” than full on fat red meat etc?] figure “treats” inTO their programs, it’s a big part of why they work so well). ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/91 "2003-07-22T20:00:54Z")
who? Is it going to come down to one of those signs like the ones in front of amusement park rides? ‘You must be this size to purchase and eat a donut.’ **matt\_mcl** was not alone in his confused indignation. Why _exactly_ does it anger you for an overweight person to eat a donut? Please, pontification on how your tax dollars will support their medical bills is slightly ridiculous. You tax dollars support a myriad of health initiatives. Nobody will **ever** agree with everything their tax dollars support. Your tax dollars have probably paid for someone to have their sixth toe\* removed, so look for a more authentic reason. Something that not everyone says just because it’s easy. I fear that for many of you, so vehement in your outrage over the concept of a fat woman eating a donut, the problem may very well be that you simply don’t like to look at them. The obese ruin the asthetics of your surroundings. FB \*not that having a sixth toe is bad. I’ve always wanted to have a sixth finger…I think I’ve read too much Anne Rice. ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/92 "2003-07-22T20:09:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FaerieBeth \* > \*\*the asthetics of your surroundings. > \*\* _adds the e_…I have ruined the a **e** sthetics of my post with poor spelling. _sigh_ I previewed, too. Rats. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/93 "2003-07-22T20:20:29Z")
I will grant you fat-bashers one point - it is definitely annoying to listen to people complaining about their situation. That’s true whether the situation concerns their spouse, SO, job, dwelling, weight or finances. We’re all our own worst enemies. **Scylla** , mighty slayer of blimps (not the human variety), I was speaking specifically of people who are extremely obese. The process of gaining that kind of weight is quite different from the 10 pounds most people put on over the holidays. Clearly I’m not speaking for every single obese person, but I’m quite certain I describe a significant percentage of them when I say that food addiction is a way of dealing with pain. It really doesn’t have anything to do with enjoying food. It’s much closer to alcoholism - in fact, I betcha the food addiction trigger has a lot to do with metabolism of simple carbs (white rice, etc. as mentioned earlier). I can drink alcohol and it doesn’t really affect me; a donut, or regular spaghetti, is another issue entirely. IMHO, I also think that you people who are driven batty by fatties ought to ask yourselves why. When someone else’s behavior drives me up a wall I’ve learned that it’s time for me to take a moment and figure out what’s going on. Nine times out of ten I learn something valuable (albeit sometimes painful) about myself. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/94 "2003-07-22T20:23:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*Walk a mile, assholes. \*\* OK - want to come along? The exercise will be good for your mood. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/95 "2003-07-22T20:25:46Z")
Just so we’re all on the same page, who, exactly are the “fat-bashers”? If I’m being lumped together with them I’d like to know. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/96 "2003-07-22T20:40:13Z")
I’ve been listening to it years, and I _still_ can’t figure out where this moral outrage at obese people comes from. Where’s the moral dimension here? What is it about obesity that triggers so many people to rev up their “social leper” rants? Why. Do. You. Care? I can understand caring about people you know who are in that situation, but what’s the deal with the “obese people in general” thing? You don’t know me. I weigh 400 lbs. Am I evil? Am I weak? Am I a moral leper? Does this change if I have one peanut butter cup once a week? What if you don’t know me and you catch me buying my one peanut butter cup? Do you feel like you’re on safe moral ground condemning me for buying candy when you don’t even know with what frequency I do so? Like it’s not hard enough trying to lose weight without having strangers tsk-tsking over me… ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/97 "2003-07-22T20:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*OK - want to come along? The exercise will be good for your mood. > > Regards, > Shodan \*\* Imbeciles like the OP and Shodan aren’t even worth paying any attention to. They aren’t educatable now any more than they were when they were chronologically children rather than just having the mentality of one. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/98 "2003-07-22T20:49:31Z")
And yet, here you are in the thread, paying me all the attention I crave. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/99 "2003-07-22T21:00:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*And yet, here you are in the thread, paying me all the attention I crave. > > Regards, > Shodan \*\* You do realize that your post could easily be seen as an admission of trolling, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118/100 "2003-07-22T21:05:11Z")
And it’s even tougher being obese and gay. If you folks think the straight world is judgmental, wait until you hear a barful of bitchy A&F queens start trashing anyone whose waistline and age are both over 25. Although the bear movement has done a lot to make hirsute, heavy men feel attractive, in the gay world overall older, heavier men are invisible. In my pre-BF days, I would definitely have given **JayJay** , **Mockingbird** , and **Lissener** some play because I find guys who are physically larger than me to be incredibly sexy. As it is, there are a couple of hefty male Dopers I’ve met IRL who I’d nail in a second if I had eyes for anyone other than my BF. Obesity is something to be controlled because it is unhealthy, not because it is necessarily unaesthetic. The key concept to remember is fitness rather than thinness. A flabby, undermuscled thin person is no healthier than a flabby, undermuscled heavy person. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-fat-people-are-their-own-worst-enemies/190118.md?page=6)