# Some friends of ours are anti-vaccination people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 26, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988 "2012-04-26T04:00:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/41 "2012-04-27T14:58:46Z")
At least one my my cousins doesn’t give their daughter all of her vaccinations. She developed whooping cough earlier this year. I’m so glad they live on the other side of the country so I don’t have to worry about my own daughters. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/42 "2012-04-27T15:09:32Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > The danger with letting the kind of inverse Halo Effect the OP is experiencing run away with you, which can happen, is it can create [Self Fulfilling Prophecies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy). So while you might have had an entire lifetime of pleasant acquaintanceship with these people, instead you’re on pins and needles waiting for their next episode of batshittery and, well, [generally we find what we look for](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias#Biased_search_for_information) I’m not sure what you mean exactly. It’s not like the batshit subjects come up that often, and when they do, you can either excuse yourself from the topic by respectfully disagreeing, or entertain yourself by picking that person’s brain to find out why they believe what they do. Or you say, “you know that I think that’s a pile of horseshit” and move on to the next topic. I suppose you can try to challenge the views (which is sometimes entertaining if you’re at the bar and bored for conversation), but it’s not exactly likely to be fruitful. Every once in a blue moon, though, you do find someone in whom you can plant a seed of doubt, so it’s not always a fool’s errand. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/43 "2012-04-27T15:44:05Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > It might do your toddler good. Vaccines aren’t 100% effective. Almost nothing is. But measles is one of the most contagious diseases on the planet. If you are not vaccinated against it and around someone who has it you are probably going to get it. The anti-vaxxers make me furious because their form of ignorance, unlike many other forms of ignorance, is literally contagious. Birthers are morons but at least they’re not going to make you break a rib or force a small baby into a hospital for a week. It is amazing to me that smart people can be so insane on this issue. One of my rotating list of supervisors casually told me she doesn’t vaccinate at all. :eek: And she has a master’s degree and two small children. I am quite grateful she lives on the other side of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/44 "2012-04-27T15:45:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it’s at least possible that they belong to a faith that recognizes these as parables rather than literal truths. So the more accurate phrasing of your “general rule” would be “There is no test you can apply to some of the religious claims of a small subset of the world’s extant religions that will show them to be false. This is largely because those claims have been constantly revised as previous iterations of them were cast into doubt by more rigorous epistemological methods, chiefly science.” In other news, apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order… what have the Romans done for us? > [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean exactly. It’s not like the batshit subjects come up that often, and when they do, you can either excuse yourself from the topic by respectfully disagreeing, or entertain yourself by picking that person’s brain to find out why they believe what they do. Or you say, “you know that I think that’s a pile of horseshit” and move on to the next topic. I suppose you can try to challenge the views (which is sometimes entertaining if you’re at the bar and bored for conversation), but it’s not exactly likely to be fruitful. Every once in a blue moon, though, you do find someone in whom you can plant a seed of doubt, so it’s not always a fool’s errand. I was agreeing with your point about exposure to irrational beliefs being part and parcel with having friends who are human beings. We all have our quirks that make absolutely no sense to anyone else. Once you start thinking of people as idiots it’s hard to have a normal relationship with them. You end up negatively interpreting things that, absent this bias, you might have only thought at a bit odd or eccentric. Tolerance for differences, even irrational ones, is an important social lubricant. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/45 "2012-04-27T18:12:28Z")
Dude, I only mentioned church in passing. May we please not focus on the religious analysis and focus on the anti-vaccination? I don’t want my thread moved to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/46 "2012-04-27T18:56:47Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Almost nothing is. > > But measles is one of the most contagious diseases on the planet. If you are not vaccinated against it and around someone who has it you are probably going to get it. > > The anti-vaxxers make me furious because their form of ignorance, unlike many other forms of ignorance, is literally contagious. Birthers are morons but at least they’re not going to make you break a rib or force a small baby into a hospital for a week. \ Or die, or be permanently disabled by a preventable disease (which is possible with some of the diseases we vaccinate for - we didn’t develop these vaccinations because the diseases were harmless). ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/47 "2012-04-27T19:10:48Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Dude, I only mentioned church in passing. May we please not focus on the religious analysis and focus on the anti-vaccination? > > I don’t want my thread moved to Great Debates. Sorry–that was entirely my fault. I just found it an amusing juxtaposition. ---
**Author:** ![secretsmile36](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@secretsmile36](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/secretsmile36)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/48 "2012-04-28T12:50:19Z")
People can be such idiots. Autism is a horrible disease but at least it is not life threatening. I guess they would be happier if their children died as a result of diptheria. Then at least they wouldn’t have the dreaded autism. Pisses me off. ---
**Author:** ![secretsmile36](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@secretsmile36](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/secretsmile36)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/49 "2012-04-28T12:53:28Z")
> [@purple\_cow](#): > > The argument “my kid was fine on the morning she got her vaccinations, and when we came home she had a autism” is my personal favorite. Autism is a developmental problem, you don’t catch it and develop symptoms in a few hours like the flu. They do it because they must find something to blame for the autism. The symptoms usually become more pronounced around the time that kids get their MMR vaccines. So they think to themselves: “What did we do differently?” It must be that damn vaccine that caused this. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/50 "2012-04-28T13:01:01Z")
> [@secretsmile36](#): > > They do it because they must find something to blame for the autism. The symptoms usually become more pronounced around the time that kids get their MMR vaccines. So they think to themselves: “What did we do differently?” It must be that damn vaccine that caused this. Especially since one of the other theories proposes a genetic link - particularly for Aspergers. Which would leave parents looking to blame with themselves. ---
**Author:** ![secretsmile36](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@secretsmile36](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/secretsmile36)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/51 "2012-04-28T13:03:55Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Especially since one of the other theories proposes a genetic link - particularly for Aspergers. Which would leave parents looking to blame with themselves. Parents often blame themselves for everything. It’s not logical. How are you supposed to control what chromosomes come together at the time of non-medically assisted conception? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/52 "2012-04-28T13:57:43Z")
> [@secretsmile36](#): > > Parents often blame themselves for everything. It’s not logical. How are you supposed to control what chromosomes come together at the time of non-medically assisted conception? Many things that human beings feel are not logical. Its part of being human. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/53 "2012-04-28T14:25:43Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Wait . . . you all go to _church_, and you’re complaining that they believe in unscientific nonsense? Preach it, sistah! I just took our three dogs for their vaccines. For all I know all three are autistic. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/54 "2012-04-28T14:42:45Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Preach it, sistah! > > I just took our three dogs for their vaccines. For all I know all three are autistic. I had a keeshond that was dumber than a box of bricks, she could have been autistic … :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/55 "2012-04-28T15:53:20Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > My family doctor said refusal to allow vaccination is a form of child abuse. He does treat under 12s. > > My physician DIL will arrange a slower schedule for vaccination if the parents will allow that. She is seriously considering refusing as patients determined ant–vaxxers. The sprog’s pediatrics practice has a stated policy of not accepting children of anti-vaxxers as patients. The doctors are happy to schedule an appointment to discuss any concerns, but if the parents are still unwilling to consider even a modified schedule, their child is not welcome in that practice. (The practice was just bought out by a larger company, so I don’t know if this will still be true going forward.) > [@](#): > > Incidentally, I have recently read (Science Times, I think) that intimations of autism appear very early, long before vaccination; they are just not sufficiently abnormal to note. My youngest grandchild was so social that from 4 months, everyone but his mother had to stay out of sight when he was nursing, because he would rather look at people and smile than feed. Now his getting on to four and he is still super-social. I had a professor who addressed this. She said that, when developmental pediatricians watch videos of autistic children as toddlers, there are noticeable differences in behavior that apparent if you know to look for them. Many parents, however, just assume that these differences are because each child is different and don’t think twice about it until it’s too obvious to miss. Then it’s because of vaccines. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/56 "2012-04-28T17:21:50Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I wouldn’t let me kid play with their kid and I’d make sure they know exactly why. I’d tell everyone else on the street, too. I doubt they’ll cling so tightly to their misinformation if suddenly they and the kid have no friends due to their poor choices. Those idiot parents would then lie about their disease-ridden Typhoid Marys being vaccinated. Such children should be forced by law to have “Unclean” signs hung around their necks and carry a five-pound hand bell that must be rung twice for each step they take. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/57 "2012-04-28T19:34:49Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Those idiot parents would then lie about their disease-ridden Typhoid Marys being vaccinated. > > Such children should be forced by law to have “Unclean” signs hung around their necks and carry a five-pound hand bell that must be rung twice for each step they take. No, it’s not the kid’s fault they have stupid parents. It’s the _parents_ who should have to go around with a big, embroidered “TS” on their chests. (For “Terminally Stupid”) And maybe an addition “I Hate My Kids So Much I Won’t Protect Them” ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/58 "2012-04-28T20:22:01Z")
I still don’t understand how these people look past the fact that they were probably vaccinated…and that they do not have autism (although perhaps they do…) Seriously - how do they explain the kids who don’t get autism from their vaccinations? Do they even try to look for an unseen factor? A hidden variable? Screw these people…they are not worth talking to. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/59 "2012-04-28T22:13:57Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > No, it’s not the kid’s fault they have stupid parents. No, it isn’t. But the immediate danger is from the kids coughing into your kids’ faces. On the other hand, they could drop dead first from polio. ---
**Author:** ![waves625](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@waves625](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waves625)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988/60 "2012-05-25T04:37:30Z")
Its very interesting to see how people are so quick to judge others for the sake of having an alternative view that is different from your own…Just because someone decided to delay vax or not vaccinate their children at all, doesn’t make them stupid, ignorant, or not-informed. It’s typically the other way around, meaning that those that have decided to not inject their child with known pathogens HAVE done extensive research, have experienced side effects, or was a witness to someone who went through it and consciously CHOSE otherwise. For example, as a teenager, I watched my babysitters son go from being a healthy and happy 1.5 yr old to an autistic one…overnight! He was vaccinated accordingly up until that point and everything was fine. Yet, the last doctors visit was very different…within hours, he had a very bad reaction that required hospitalization…And that was it!!! Mentally altered forever…That hit me hard and I questioned THEN the efficacy of man-made vaccines. I eventually went to college as a pre-med/biology student and dove into the sciences with a concentration in nutrition. Did you know that during the first year of life, your body is not able to produce anti-bodies?! Ask an Immunologist, they’ll tell you… This is also the same reason why there is a recurrent administering of the same vaccinations during the first year…have you noticed that? and then boosters every subsequent year? It’s because the first couple of rounds aren’t even effective in producing the anti-bodies, thus the need for re-injecting…Also, this is another reason why breastfeeding is very important bc it helps to boost the babies immune system during its development during the first year…Something that a vaccination can’t do. In addition, did you know that aborted babies are used to cultivate and create certain vaccinations? On the info. packet, if it says “Diploid Cells” that means that the tissue is derived from aborted fetal tissue. Also, formaldehyde is used (most know its use for embalming), thimerosol (a proven and known neuro-toxin), aluminum (a metal that the body cannot assimilate…again neurotoxin), Cow sebum, Monkey Kidney cells… Do you know about Titers? Titer tests? They are used in the veterinary world because they don’t want to over-vaccinate the animals. So, before administering and introducing a foreign pathogen into the bloodstream unnecessarily, they test whether or not the animal has anti-bodies present or not for each vaccination. If the dog has anti-bodies for said vax, then they dont vaccinate…why? Because they already have the anti-body and dont need the vaccination…and if they don’t, thats when they go ahead and vaccinate. Why isn’t this done for our children?! I think this is an intelligent and logical step in bridging both sides of anti/pro vax…In addition, Did you know that you can carry an anti-body without having a vaccination? And also, carry anti-bodies without the illness being expressed? Meaning that you can have the anti-body of lets say influenza, without actually appearing sick? Yes and YES! If your immune system is working at maximum capacity and you are introduced to a pathogen, your body will produce the anti-body without actually appearing sick…This is where titer tests are helpful bc by testing the blood, you can see if anti-bodies are present or not and decide if a vaccination is truly necessary… Again, bridging the gap between anti/pro vaxers… In addition, just to help those of you who have decided to vaccinate your children and are “afraid” of letting your child mingle with those that aren’t vaccinated: If the vaccinations are so effective, then it shouldnt and wouldnt matter if they were exposed to anyone really. If your child is protected by having the anti-bodies, then what do you have to be worried about? (newborn is different altogether…in that case, breastfeeding is the ultimate protection in first year) So the next time you think poorly of the person next to you for choosing something different, remember: Your child has anti-bodies (if older than 1) and will be fine mingling with others that haven’t been vaccinated…And especially for the church goers, you have got to be kidding to cut off good people for choosing whats best for their family… What would Jesus do!!! He was NOT Vaccinated by the way!!! We were created with amazing immune systems but Everyone, BOTH pro and anti vaccinators should do research and be informed all of the way!! That will at least (maybe) educate the masses and help everyone become more tolerant of others that are doing whats best for them and their own family. It is they who have to live with their decisions as you do too…Lets cease useless hatred and disgust for our “friends” when they’ve made a conscious decision to choose something differently…The truth shall set you free… thank you, Be well [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-friends-of-ours-are-anti-vaccination-people/619988.md?page=4)