# Some Geography Trivia Fun: Degree Confluences **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 28, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767 "2010-02-28T19:17:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/21 "2010-03-01T23:19:20Z")
I grew up less than ten miles from [44 N 76 W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?id=186), and in fact went skinny dipping in the river just north of it as a kid (in the summer, of course). Nearest one to me these days, though, is [36 N 78 W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?id=346). ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/22 "2010-03-01T23:19:28Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > I live within a couple of blocks of Baseline road, which is the 40th parallel, and was the dividing line between the Nebraska territory and the Kansas territory before Colorado became a state. The nearest confluence is east of me by about ten miles or so. > > It intersects 105 West about a mile or so east of Interstate 25, just east of the town of Erie, in an alfalfa field. It is just about one mile above sea level. > > [40N, 105W](http://www.confluence.org/photo.php?visitid=5996&pic=2) Good deal. Thanks. Updated list: ```auto Haunted Pasta --------- ??? Opal ------------------ 42N 71W Edward The Head ------- 39N 77W KennerTheGreat -------- 46N 80W Giles ----------------- 40N 83W Zeldar ---------------- 36N 87W Freddy the Pig -------- 42N 88W dhkendall ------------- 50N 97W Lamar Mundane --------- 40N 105W GESancMan ------------- 45N 123W ``` I sorted the list. Since width of the USA Lower 48 is greater than height, E-W is the primary sort, then N-S when that becomes an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/23 "2010-03-01T23:27:13Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I grew up less than ten miles from [44 N 76 W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?id=186), and in fact went skinny dipping in the river just north of it as a kid (in the summer, of course). > > Nearest one to me these days, though, is [36 N 78 W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?id=346). I’ll repost the whole list a bit later. Right now, here’s where yours fits: ```auto Edward The Head ------- 39N 77W Polycarp -------------- 36N 78W KennerTheGreat -------- 46N 80W ``` ---
**Author:** ![ErinPuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@ErinPuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ErinPuff)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/24 "2010-03-02T00:50:57Z")
[36N 79W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?id=121) is about ten miles from where I live now, and [40N 75W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=40&lon=-75) is about 25 miles from where I grew up. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/25 "2010-03-02T05:37:41Z")
Here’s the new picture: ```auto Haunted Pasta --------- ??? Opal ------------------ 42N 71W Edward The Head ------- 39N 77W Polycarp -------------- 36N 78W ErinPuff -------------- 36N 79W KennerTheGreat -------- 46N 80W Giles ----------------- 40N 83W Zeldar ---------------- 36N 87W Freddy the Pig -------- 42N 88W dhkendall ------------- 50N 97W Lamar Mundane --------- 40N 105W GESancMan ------------- 45N 123W ``` It appears that we have a hard pair to beat, Dopers: ```auto Polycarp -------------- 36N 78W ErinPuff -------------- 36N 79W toss me in Zeldar ---------------- 36N 87W ``` and that’s three on the same latitude. And ```auto Giles ----------------- 40N 83W Lamar Mundane --------- 40N 105W ``` for two others. Pretty impressive for the first dozen to reply. We need some non-North American Dopers to report in. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/26 "2010-03-02T07:35:17Z")
It seems like a good time to post the extremes of the Contiguous 48 USA states, so we can gauge where on the map the confluences must be as they come in with just the coordinates. Sadly, the easternmost point in Maine is just west of [45°N 67°W Deer Island, NB, Canada Approx. altitude: 2 m (6 ft) Antipode: 45°S 113°E](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=45&lon=-67) That means that the northeasternmost USA confluence has to be[47°N 68°W 9.6 miles (15.5 km) N of Caribou, Aroostook, ME, USA Approx. altitude: 213 m (698 ft) Antipode: 47°S 112°E](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=47&lon=-68) The southernmost confluence seems to be[25°N 81°W 11.0 miles (17.7 km) SSW of Flamingo, Monroe, FL, USA Approx. altitude: 0 m (0 ft) Antipode: 25°S 99°E](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=25&lon=-81) The northernmost Lower 48 point is just north of the confluence at[49°N 95°W 2.5 miles (4.0 km) NW of Long Point, Lake of Woods, MN, USA Approx. altitude: 323 m (1059 ft) Antipode: 49°S 85°E](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=49&lon=-95) The northwesternmost confluence is a little east of the extreme point in the NW direction and looks to be at [48°N 124°W 4.9 miles (7.9 km) SSE of Fairholm, Clallam, WA, USA Approx. altitude: 648 m (2125 ft) Antipode: 48°S 56°E](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=48&lon=-124) The southwestermost confluence appears to be [33°N 117°W 3.3 miles (5.3 km) NE of Poway, San Diego, CA, USA Approx. altitude: 423 m (1387 ft) Antipode: 33°S 63°E](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=33&lon=-117) Putting it all together the Longitudes of 67W to 124W (or 57 degrees), and the Latitudes of 25N to 49N (or 24 degrees) gives us a feel for the size of this country. According to [Lebanon, Kansas - Geographical Center of the 48 States](http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/7032) > [@](#): > > is located just north and west of Lebanon, KS, adjacent to a pasture and overseen by a friendly-if-nonplussed herd of cows. and the nearest confluence to that point is [40°N 99°W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=40&lon=-99) since the actual coordinates are [LAT. 39°50’ LONG. 98°35’](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_center_of_the_contiguous_United_States) if you take one of the versions in that Wikipedia article and the one cited at [Geographic centers of the United States](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_centers_of_the_United_States) If you have any other noteworthy USA points to highlight, please do. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/27 "2010-03-02T15:51:59Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > After visiting the maps and pictures for the Southeastern states I’m finding hardly any that are said to be “right on” the border even though they are very close to it in appearance on the map and you’d think the maps of borders that close would be right on the latitude or longitude line. Are old surveying methods obsoleted by GPS? I located a probable explanation for this issue at [Information about Degree Confluences](http://www.confluence.org/infoconf.php#definition) where this is said: > [@](#): > > **Confluences on borders** > > Confluences exactly on the Northern and Eastern borders of a state, province or country will be included in that state, province or country. Confluences on the Southern and Western borders will be included in the bordering state, province or country. > > Historically, borders were defined by a variety of methods, and most that refer to specific coordinates were done long before the WGS84 system was defined. As a result, sometimes the above rule isn’t needed for “border confluences”. For example, the Canada/United States border, from 123°W on the the west coast to 96°W between Manitoba and Minnesota, when viewed using WGS84 coordinates, is actually a line that zig-zags back and forth across the 49th parallel. None of the confluences along the border are actually on the border, so they belong to the province/state in which they are located. If this part of the Canada/United States border was defined as the WGS84 49th parallel, then the above rule would apply, and all these confluences would belong to the United States. See the Canada page for more information. A neat table ( **Poles Problem – Longitude Distances** ) just below that quoted section may help explain distances by degree of latitude. ---
**Author:** ![Haunted\_Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/94ad74/32.png) [@Haunted\_Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haunted_Pasta)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/28 "2010-03-02T19:53:03Z")
Just so we can get rid of the question marks, my nearest confluence is 30N, 98W. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/29 "2010-03-02T19:58:19Z")
Closest to me is [43N 84W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?id=187) ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/30 "2010-03-02T20:04:22Z")
> [@Haunted\_Pasta](#): > > Just so we can get rid of the question marks, my nearest confluence is 30N, 98W. Very good. Thanks. The list: ```auto Opal ------------------ 42N 71W Edward The Head ------- 39N 77W Polycarp -------------- 36N 78W ErinPuff -------------- 36N 79W KennerTheGreat -------- 46N 80W Giles ----------------- 40N 83W Zeldar ---------------- 36N 87W Freddy the Pig -------- 42N 88W dhkendall ------------- 50N 97W Haunted Pasta --------- 30N 98W Lamar Mundane --------- 40N 105W GESancMan ------------- 45N 123W ``` Yours is most southern so far. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/31 "2010-03-02T20:08:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Closest to me is [43N 84W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?id=187) Sorry not to catch your post before the list went up, but you’re at ```auto Giles ----------------- 40N 83W BobLibDem ------------- 43N 84W Zeldar ---------------- 36N 87W ``` ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/32 "2010-03-02T21:14:48Z")
[39N 120W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=39&lon=-120) is the closest one to me, and it’s beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/33 "2010-03-02T21:42:39Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > [39N 120W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=39&lon=-120) is the closest one to me, and it’s beautiful. Agreed. Beautiful indeed. Here’s a partial update to place you in the list: ```auto Lamar Mundane --------- 40N 105W Enginerd -------------- 39N 120W GESancMan ------------- 45N 123W ``` ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/34 "2010-03-04T21:05:57Z")
The nearest confluence to my address is 38N 122W, which is 32 miles away (and a 40 mile drive). Nowhere close, really. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/35 "2010-03-04T21:18:34Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > The nearest confluence to my address is 38N 122W, which is 32 miles away (and a 40 mile drive). Nowhere close, really. Thanks. Here’s the list: ```auto Opal ------------------ 42N 71W Edward The Head ------- 39N 77W Polycarp -------------- 36N 78W ErinPuff -------------- 36N 79W KennerTheGreat -------- 46N 80W Giles ----------------- 40N 83W BobLibDem ------------- 43N 84W Zeldar ---------------- 36N 87W Freddy the Pig -------- 42N 88W dhkendall ------------- 50N 97W Haunted Pasta --------- 30N 98W Lamar Mundane --------- 40N 105W Enginerd -------------- 39N 120W Nametag --------------- 38N 122W GESancMan ------------- 45N 123W ``` ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/36 "2010-03-05T17:34:01Z")
Here’s the list sorted S-N Latitudes. ```auto Haunted Pasta --------- 30N 98W Polycarp -------------- 36N 78W ErinPuff -------------- 36N 79W Zeldar ---------------- 36N 87W Nametag --------------- 38N 122W Edward The Head ------- 39N 77W Enginerd -------------- 39N 120W Giles ----------------- 40N 83W Lamar Mundane --------- 40N 105W Opal ------------------ 42N 71W Freddy the Pig -------- 42N 88W BobLibDem ------------- 43N 84W GESancMan ------------- 45N 123W KennerTheGreat -------- 46N 80W dhkendall ------------- 50N 97W ``` ---
**Author:** ![RalfCoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@RalfCoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RalfCoder)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/37 "2010-03-06T00:59:15Z")
43 W, 84 N is more or less 20 miles west of me. > [@dhkendall](#): > > It’s mainly my geography geekery, and that I really can’t explain why. It just fascinates me to no end. Dhkendall - ever try geocaching? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/38 "2010-03-06T01:14:34Z")
43N 88W is about 10 minutes away from me. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/39 "2010-03-06T03:59:35Z")
> [@RalfCoder](#): > > 43 W, 84 N is more or less 20 miles west of me. Is it possible you got those numbers backward? [84°N 43°W](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=84&lon=-43) has neither been visited nor indexed, whereas [43°N 84°W 5.8 miles (9.3 km) E of Corunna, Shiawassee, MI, USA Approx. altitude: 232 m (761 ft) Antipode: 43°S 96°E](http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?lat=43&lon=-84)seems more likely. I’m going with the 43N 84W for the sake of updating the list. ```auto Opal ------------------ 42N 71W Edward The Head ------- 39N 77W Polycarp -------------- 36N 78W ErinPuff -------------- 36N 79W KennerTheGreat -------- 46N 80W Giles ----------------- 40N 83W BobLibDem ------------- 43N 84W RalfCoder ------------- 43N 84W Zeldar ---------------- 36N 87W Freddy the Pig -------- 42N 88W Joey P ---------------- 43N 88W dhkendall ------------- 50N 97W Haunted Pasta --------- 30N 98W Lamar Mundane --------- 40N 105W Enginerd -------------- 39N 120W Nametag --------------- 38N 122W GESancMan ------------- 45N 123W ``` I added **Joey P** as well. If the numbers are right, ```auto BobLibDem ------------- 43N 84W RalfCoder ------------- 43N 84W ``` we have our first match! ---
**Author:** ![\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/eada6e/32.png) [@\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Undecided_Adrian)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767/40 "2010-03-07T18:40:34Z")
The two nearest to me are 49°N 9°E, 5 km north of which I had an unplanned landing in a field with my glider, and 50°N 9°E near Frankfurt, where I drove by on the Autobahn 3. Neither was at the exact spot, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-geography-trivia-fun-degree-confluences/530767.md?page=3)