# Some glass-half-full thoughts for dispirited Dems **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 15, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069 "2016-11-15T16:51:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/21 "2016-11-15T23:08:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It wasn’t until I recently chatted with a family member, a Hillary supporter, that I pinpointed something I hadn’t quite realized yet: that some liberals have a **“It hurts, but it’s right”** mindset. > > On the issue of Obamacare, for instance, some liberals have the attitude of: _“Yes, the insurance premiums are expensive and a painful burden on a family’s finances, but it’s the right thing to do because it makes poor people or the less-well off better off now,”_ and kind of hand-wave away the financial burden. Such a viewpoint could be applied to theoretical single-payer in America, too: _“It hurts that you have to pay 8% of your income every year into this system, but it’s the right thing to do because it makes healthcare affordable for much of America that couldn’t afford it previously.”_ > > Or affirmative action: _“It hurts that you were turned down by the university you wanted admission to in favor of other minority students, but it’s the right thing to do because it helps correct past racial injustices.”_ And those are poor messages from amateur messengers, and don’t reflect the thinking behind either PPACA or AA. Which is why the Dems need to start doing their messaging professionally and deeply. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/22 "2016-11-15T23:16:36Z")
He’s off to a good start. For example, he promised: “We’re going to win so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of winning” He made good on this promise the moment that he was elected! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/23 "2016-11-15T23:39:22Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Our next nominee will also not be trying to succeed a two-term President of his or her own party, which is rare in the modern era (Nixon in 1960, Humphrey in 1968 and McCain in 2008 all couldn’t do it). You left off Al Gore in 2000. In fact, the only time it’s happened in the span you mention was George H. W. Bush in 1988 and he ended up being a 1 term POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/24 "2016-11-15T23:59:27Z")
I’ve got a little more of a local take on the glass half full thing. I live in Gwinnett County, one of the Atlanta metro suburbs. It is the 2nd most populous county in GA. Second only to Fulton County, which includes the City of Atlanta. Georgia’s political map has looked the same for years. Fulton and Dekalb Counties, which are the heart of downtown Atlanta, are solid blue. There are also less populous counties around cities like Columbus and Savannah that are consistently blue. The rest of Georgia is almost pure red. Gwinnett County has not voted for a Democratic nominee for President for years, all the way back to 1992, when southern boy Bill Clinton won many southern states. But this year, we did! Hillary actually “won” Gwinnett County with 51% of the vote. This [article](http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/local/election-showed-gwinnett-shifting-from-republicans-to-democrats-earlier-than/article_f8299246-5565-5112-a89d-3450667d44d2.html) discusses the shifting population that made this happen. One word: Latinos. Gwinnett also sent Sam Park, an Asian-American, to the Georgia House of Representatives in a battle with a Republican candidate who outspent him 3:1 during the campaign. I’m taking these small local victories as a harbinger of things to come. But I’m also getting active on the local party efforts for the first time since 1989, when I worked on the campaign of Douglas Wilder when he won the Governorship of Virginia, where I lived at the time. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/25 "2016-11-16T01:02:41Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > On issue after issue, most Americans favor policies advocated by Democrats. UHC - no Gun control - no Global warming - no Regulations on industry - no Infrastructure spending - no Evolution - no Immigration - no Gay rights - dubious (court fiat) Drug war - evolving in some liberal states, otherwise no The closest to a progressive heartbeat in America is a vague sense of concern for equality and injustice around race and sex, which often seems more like wanting to be considered good people rather than making policy changes. It’s true you can point to polls on this or that issue and it seems as if the populace might favor the liberal position. This has been true for decades. However, it doesn’t translates into votes for liberal policy that supposedly everyone wants, as can be seen most notably in the recent election. Maybe the polls are just wrong. Maybe people lie. I don’t really know. But actions speak louder than words. If you tell a pollster you want infrastructure spending but then vote in the politicians who block infrastructure spending – as the GOP did under Obama – then saying that person secretly agrees with you on infrastructure spending is self flattery. I think what the Dems need is better propaganda. They need a lefty version of Luntz and Fox. Cool reason and logic can’t sway a continental empire of 318 million. It’s not how Republicans win, and it’s certainly not how Trump won (nor Obama). But if people want to stand up there with a chart comparing per capita healthcare spending in America vs. other industrialized countries and think that’ll do it, this time, for reals, while the other side says you want to kill grandma with death panels and usher in a socialist takeover of America, well, good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/26 "2016-11-16T01:29:49Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > On issue after issue, most Americans favor policies advocated by Democrats. > [@marshmallow](#): > > UHC - no > Gun control - no > Global warming - no > Regulations on industry - no > Infrastructure spending - no > Evolution - no > Immigration - no > Gay rights - dubious (court fiat) > Drug war - evolving in some liberal states, otherwise no **marshmallow** , not sure where you’re getting that. [Most Americans believe same-sex marriages should have the same legal standing as opposite-sex marriages](http://www.gallup.com/poll/117328/Marriage.aspx) [Most Americans believe humans evolved](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-belief-in-evolution-plummets-poll-reveals/) [Most Americans believe laws around the sale of firearms should be more strict](http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/Guns.aspx) [Most Americans believe humans are causing global warming](http://www.gallup.com/poll/167972/steady-blame-humans-global-warming.aspx) (Admittedly, 2 out of 4 of those are phrased as a factual belief rather than a policy question. But even on these questions of fact, the majority is with the Democrats.) I know polling hasn’t been having a good month (:() most of these are 60+% of Americans, and have held up over time. Not within the range of a likely polling error. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/27 "2016-11-16T01:49:49Z")
On the “glass half full” thing, I’m hoping that having a unified Republican government means the Dems will do better than they otherwise would in 2018, and that Trump will be sufficiently unpopular by 2020 that the Dems can take the White House and with it get a boost in down-ballot races. I believe 2020 is especially important because of the redistricting that comes with the ten-year census. It’s a little tricky, though, because what I really want is for Trump to somehow both exceed my (admittedly quite low) expectations for his presidency, _and_ to have his popularity decline enough that we don’t re-elect him. (This is assuming he doesn’t somehow transform into the sort of President I’d actually _want_ in office. Suffice it to say, I consider that extremely unlikely.) ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/28 "2016-11-16T02:47:11Z")
Once Trump can fill the Supreme Court with true Constitutionalists, we can get voter id, ban felons from voting nationwide and deport 3 million illegals many who probably voted. Then you can kiss your dreams of winning the Presidency goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/29 "2016-11-16T03:24:38Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Once Trump can fill the Supreme Court with true Constitutionalists, we can get voter id, ban felons from voting nationwide and deport 3 million illegals many who probably voted. Then you can kiss your dreams of winning the Presidency goodbye. No evidence that any of the types of voter fraud you list actually happened in any significant way. I did a google for " 3 million illegals voting": [Yep, Infowars.](http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/local/election-showed-gwinnett-shifting-from-republicans-to-democrats-earlier-than/article_f8299246-5565-5112-a89d-3450667d44d2.html) :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/30 "2016-11-16T04:12:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You left off Al Gore in 2000. In fact, the only time it’s happened in the span you mention was George H. W. Bush in 1988 and he ended up being a 1 term POTUS. Good point. Should’ve remembered poor Al. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/31 "2016-11-16T04:14:37Z")
I’m curious to know how this figure was arrived at. I’m guessing that it was somebody’s notion of what Hillary’s ultimate popular vote margin could be. Or that there was an ass and a pulling motion involved. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/32 "2016-11-19T01:40:28Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > The most important thing to do is to constantly explain to the masses _why_ they are wrong — to listen patiently to their plaints and then preach to them like an old-time Jesuit missionary. Show them the depths of their depravity; point out how vile they, poor trembling souls before your throne, are in every wretched opinion. Take no backchat: call out their innate racism and sexism; point out your superior education and understanding; drain them of the very will to live. > > Explain the New Order that is surely coming - a genderless, raceless paradise of deservedly Rich and Poor, with endless war for endless peace - inevitable if only they fulfil their side of the contract and give over their votes, then shut up until next called again. > > And then cajole them with the final argument if they are poor and white: that they are dying out and will be obliterated from History. Because they’re Bad People. _The New America Foundation’s Mark Schmitt also cautioned against catering to the largely older and white voters who turned out in droves for Donald Trump. “Their concerns are mostly cultural and identitarian,” he told me. “They see Washington simply as a place of people not like them—just different, and elite, and Jewish, and gay. It’s not their thing… These people are old. They are fucking old! If you say a lot of them don’t have college degrees but their income is relatively high, what does that tell you? It tells you they’re old.”_ [New Republic](https://newrepublic.com/article/138830/democrats-over-learning-lessons-trumps-victory) I am less certain than when I was 15 that age disqualifies older people from understanding life, but even if they are contemptible, I certainly would keep quiet about it when soliciting their votes. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/33 "2016-11-28T17:31:22Z")
In 2020, the new administration will be an unparalleled disaster. There will be no wall built or even started. The factories will not come back. The fat cats will have gotten their huge tax cuts, and amazingly enough didn’t immediately start creating jobs the way Republican orthodoxy would have you believe. The middle class will have seen their taxes go up. There will be a new war to avenge that pretender in the Oval Office’s hurt feelings over a tweet. The deficit will have exploded. The ACA will have been eliminated with no replacement, millions are now without insurance. Rates for the insured skyrocket. Russia will have annexed Ukraine and the Baltic states. Against this backdrop, the Democrats nominate a squeaky clean inspirational candidate and have an incredibly favorable Senate map to work with. Democrats sweep into power in several big states, just in time to gerrymander the House for the next decade. President Pence (you don’t think ElCheeto would serve a full term, do you?) leads the GOP to electoral apocalypse. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/34 "2016-11-28T18:28:02Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > . But our next nominee will almost certainly not have a quarter-century of highly-motivated GOP hatred to overcome, or have an FBI Director declaring he or she is under investigation just 11 days before Election Day. . No, but they will have Russian Intelligence and Wikileaks attacking and stealing emails, releasing the worst with subtle changes in context ect. They will have attacks like Swiftboating. They will have Brietbart and others attacking them with mostly made up shit. They will have to fight Jim Crow laws across the nation. disenfranchising many minority voters. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/35 "2016-11-28T18:29:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That’s of course assuming the Trump presidency will be a disaster. The simple path to a democrat victory is to get those people who sat out this year to vote. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/36 "2016-11-28T18:30:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes there are some lies, but the Democratic party doesn’t have the heart and soul of the working stiff anymore… And the **GOP** does? :rolleyes::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/37 "2016-11-28T18:34:34Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > The most important thing to do is to constantly explain to the masses _why_ they are wrong — to listen patiently to their plaints and then preach to them like an old-time Jesuit missionary. Show them the depths of their depravity; point out how vile they, poor trembling souls before your throne, are in every wretched opinion. Take no backchat: call out their innate racism and sexism; point out your superior education and understanding; drain them of the very will to live. > > Explain the New Order that is surely coming - a genderless, raceless paradise of deservedly Rich and Poor, with endless war for endless peace - inevitable if only they fulfil their side of the contract and give over their votes, then shut up until next called again. > > And then cajole them with the final argument if they are poor and white: that they are dying out and will be obliterated from History. Because they’re Bad People. You are so right! It is _so_ much better to\* lie\* to them, to tell them that tax cuts for the Rich will “trickle down” to them (well, I suppose the billionaire CEOs peeing on their minimum wage employees is a form of “trickle down”), to tell that that their jobs are coming back when those jobs are gone, gone gone and to tell them that things will get better if only the Rich get MORE! :rolleyes::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/39 "2016-11-28T18:40:55Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > UHC - no > Gun control - no > Global warming - no > … Most Americans want some form of UHC, the devil is in the details. Most Americans want some form of Gun control, the devil is in the details. _Sixty-four percent of U.S. adults say they are worried a “great deal” or “fair amount” about global warming,‘’_ '[http://www.gallup.com/poll/190010/concern-global-warming-eight-year-high.aspx](http://www.gallup.com/poll/190010/concern-global-warming-eight-year-high.aspx) and so forth, wrong on almost every count. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/40 "2016-11-28T19:21:54Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That’s of course assuming the Trump presidency will be a disaster. The simple path to a democrat victory is to get those people who sat out this year to vote. Yes. In 2008 Obama received 10 million more votes than Clinton got this time. Democrats, do you want to win elections? I have a glass half full for you: Vote. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-glass-half-full-thoughts-for-dispirited-dems/772069/41 "2016-11-28T19:49:33Z")
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