# Some good historical fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 16, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523 "2003-02-16T23:26:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/41 "2003-02-19T23:53:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WordMan \* > [My question to you is: what did you like about Slammerkin and The Crimson Petal…where do they fit on the spectrum I laid out and how strongly would you recommend them? > Thanks. \*\* On a scale of 1 (airport junk fiction) to 10 (literary value), I’d give them both a big fat 10. I’m easy though. I’m very partial to an unself-conscious writing style – the kind where you forget that you’re reading. The characters were original but they were real-life original – not that overly quirky kind of original that you get when the writer isn’t sure what he’s doing. You know, when he’s trying to be different and he goes too far, and he thinks he’ll get away with phony oddball characters because he thinks we’ll accept them as original. I think Slammerkin might have been better-researched, but Crimson was more emotionally involving. There’s way too much good stuff in this thread. Maybe it’s time to print it out and start shopping. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/42 "2003-02-20T01:54:44Z")
I didn’t really like \* The Crimson Petal and the White. \* The story of Sugar the whore could have been much more interesting than that of her “rescue” by William. For some reason, the rescue struck me as akin to a \* Harlequin Romance, \* despite the fact that no one really lived “happily ever after.” Agnes and her doctor’s efforts to “cure” her madness was an interesting sub-plot, but I thought Henry was a boring character. I know his tormented struggle was supposed to make the reader sympathetic, but it only irritated me. I agree that the writing style the author chose was interesting, especially in the beginning when it is the book itself which talks to the reader. All of the characters are evenly covered and the story is told from each one’s point of view. I wasn’t a big fan of \* Gates of Fire, \* either. While the descriptions of the battle and of the military were very interesting, there was too little detail about his life before the army. For example, his wife and family are only mentioned in passing. I know this is supposed to demonstrate the total dedication to the military life to the exclusion of what we would think of as an emotional “family” life, but since the main character was describing his culture to the enemy king, the story might have benefitted from more cultural explanation. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/43 "2003-02-20T08:51:53Z")
Have to concur with the Gore Vidal fans; he’s great (also love his essays). I also read most of James Michener’s stuff as a teenager and remember liking it a lot; not sure what i’d make of it now. When i think of historical novels, i also put in this category old novels that describe their period particularly well. Charles Dickens is one of my favorites, and in the United States i like Herman Melville and the muckraking style of Upton Sinclair. If you want a good historical read about Chicago in the early 20th century, with a dose of socialism thrown in, _The Jungle_ is excellent. I know this stuff doesn’t really fit the category, but i thought i’d throw it in anyway. ---
**Author:** ![bifar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bifar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bifar)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/44 "2003-02-20T09:12:57Z")
If you’re a fan of 19th Century UK-based stuff I definitely recommend The Quincunx, by Charles Palliser. It is a massive pastiche, much influenced by Wilkie Collins and Dickens, and, once you get into it (as I say, it’s massive!) is amazingly gripping. It covers all levels of Victorian society as well, from the scavengers to the aristocracy, with loads of detail. ---
**Author:** ![Cillasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Cillasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cillasi)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/45 "2003-02-20T13:02:24Z")
Edward Rutherford’s “London”, “Sarum”, and “Russka” are wonderful books. London and Sarum start about the same…detailing the formation of the British Isles from prehistoric times. London, of course, concentrates on the City of London, while Sarum explores the part of England around where Stonehenge was built. Russka does the same for Russia, and you come to understand a lot of things about Eastern Europe. They are all worth the read. ---
**Author:** ![Morgainelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Morgainelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgainelf)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/46 "2003-02-20T13:39:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cillasi \* > \*\*Edward Rutherford’s “London”, “Sarum”, and “Russka” are wonderful books. > > London and Sarum start about the same…detailing the formation of the British Isles from prehistoric times. London, of course, concentrates on the City of London, while Sarum explores the part of England around where Stonehenge was built. > > Russka does the same for Russia, and you come to understand a lot of things about Eastern Europe. > > They are all worth the read. \*\* Thanks for the tip - I wasn’t aware of **Russka**. I’ve read **Sarum** three times, and love it more each time. However I’ve never been able to get all the way through **London**. I get bogged down during the Elizabethan period and can’t seem to get out! ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/47 "2003-02-20T14:58:05Z")
If we’re including time-travel storie, I’d recommend Jack Finney’s _Time and Again_, with a modern (c. 1970) protagonist in a vividly-described 1882 New York. Also the classic _Lest Darkness Fall_ by L. Sprague de Camp. And for more books about the Byzantine Empire, I’d recommend Robert Graves’ _Count Belisarius_, and a H.N. Turtletaub’s _Justinian_. (H.N. Turtletaub is better known as Harry Turtledove; I guess he wanted to distinguish his straight historical fiction from his enormous output of alternate-history fiction). And for a contemporary depiction of the early Byzantine Empire, read Procopius’ _Secret History_. Also, find Xenophon’s first-hand account of the march of the Ten Thousand. ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/48 "2003-02-20T15:57:24Z")
I have to echo everyone else’s suggestion of Gary Jennings. He writes thoroughly enjoyable historical fiction. You may also want to check out Umberto Eco. He wrote “In the Name of the Rose:” a murder mystery set in a medieval monastary as well as a few other historical novels. In fact his newest one came out fairly recently (at least in English) which I will be picking up after I finish the historical fiction book which I am currently reading. As for what I am currently reading, it falls into the historical fiction genre. “A Tale of Genji” by some Japanese woman from the 10th or 11th century. I haven’t quite read enough to decide if I like it (200 out of 1000 pages) but it is really pretty engrossing so far. So far Genji is basically forming relationships with the rest of the court and looking for a wife. It is among the earliest prose fiction books, considered to be a classic, written by a woman, in Medieval Japan, from the court, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/49 "2003-02-20T16:14:46Z")
I’m surprised not to see any references to Patrick O’Brien here. His lengthy (20-something volume) Aubrey/Maturin series, set in the world of the 18th-century Royal Navy, beginning with _Master and Commander_, is head and shoulders over any other historical fiction, and most fiction of any kind, that I’ve ever read. I did see a reference to Kenneth Roberts above. Good one. Although he wasn’t the writer that O’Brien was, he’s interesting because he writes from viewpoints that one doesn’t often get to see from. _Oliver Wiswell_ is the story of the American Revolution, told from the Loyalist point of view. I was a kid when I read it, and it never even came up in my grammar-school history classes that could even be such a thing as a Loyalist point of view. _Lydia Bailey_ is the story of the Haitian slave revolution, among other things. Again, not something I was made aware of as a kid. Also, don’t forget Walter Scott. _Ivanhoe_ and _The Talisman_ are set in the 12th century, the first in England and the latter in the Middle East during the Crusades. _Waverly_ is set in the same world that produced the movies _Braveheart_ and, OK, I can’t remember, that other Scottish one. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/50 "2003-02-20T16:33:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dorkusmalorkusmafia \* > \*\*“In the Name of the Rose:” > > As for what I am currently reading, it falls into the historical fiction genre. “A Tale of Genji” by some Japanese woman from the 10th or 11th century. \*\* [minor nit] it’s “The Name of the Rose” [/minor nit] - great recommendation - a “basic” of good historical fiction, like I, Claudius and a few others… [trivia] Tales of the Genji was written by Lady Murasaki [/trivia] The reference to Japan stirred my memory. If you haven’t read **Shogun** you really should - it isn’t literature, per se, but it moves along very nicely and provides a good overview of feudal Japan. Also **Memoirs of a Geisha** is a wonderful book to gain insight into that world… ---
**Author:** ![Glassy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Glassy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glassy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/51 "2003-02-20T16:48:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WordMan \* > > **The Alienist by Carr** - More junk-foody than those previously mentioned, but at least it was written by an actual historian. A serial killer thriller that gives a great view of life in 1890’s Manhattan. Fun, fast, educational read. > **Outlander Series by Gabaldon** - not particularly rich with historical fact and in its heart of hearts much more of a bodice ripper than anything. Well written for what it is, but not close to the earlier-mentioned books by a great distance. I would argue with that last sentence. The Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon is a damn good romance, while the Alienist is a rather mediocre mystery. Carr’s book is very detailed but I didn’t think any of his characters came to life at all, which made me not particularly care about the rest. Just IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Zanshin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e274bd/32.png) [@Zanshin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanshin)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/52 "2003-02-20T17:21:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WordMan \* > **The Camulod Chronicles by Whyte** - Worth reading, if not as well crafted as, say, the Masters of Rome. Picks up in 4th century Britain after the Roman Empire has more or less abandoned the UK. Offers a credible account of the times and historical figures leading up to and including the Arthurian legend - if Merlin wasn’t an actual sorcerer, what could explain the legendary events? Starts with the Skystone - surprisingly addictive. This was the first series that came to mind when I saw the OP. I was introduced to this series by a cow-orker and burned through all of them in about a two-week span. It leans more towards the fiction than the history (if you know what I mean) but I really enjoyed it. It’s a good story of how Camelot…er, Camulod, may have actually come to be, and traces the lines of Pendragon and that of Merlin. Gives a new meaning to the phrase ‘the sword in the stone’, too. The only thing that kinda horked me off about the series is how apparently the folks at Camulod came up with every military advancement between the invention of fire and the Patriot missile – every book it’s like, “Hey, see this cool new weapon/armor/shield/technology I came up with!” Other than that, I loved the series. Great stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/53 "2003-02-20T17:33:52Z")
Jumping in again. I saw a reference to James Michener above. I’ve only read one book by him ever, because I found it in a closet in a house where I spent some time this summer and I didn’t have anything else to read. It’s called _Caravan_ (I think). It’s set in Afghanistan in the 1950s, which, in light of recent events, makes for a pretty interesting read. It’s still in print and easily available. And Michener, while not what one would call a “literary” writer, is way better than, say, Ken Follet, whose _Pillars of the Earth_ was mentioned above. Great setting for a novel, but Follet just cannot write real, living, breathing characters. ---
**Author:** ![Cabari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b782af/32.png) [@Cabari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabari)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/54 "2003-02-20T18:39:19Z")
I’d recommend anything by Mary Renault, especially her Alexander the Great trilogy-- Fire from Heaven, The Persian Boy, and Funeral Games. They’re a little heavy on the gay (not a bad thing, mind), and very, very good. Then again I’ve rather a thing for Alexander, so my word may not be the best. However, she’s written many fantastic books-- The Charioteer is (I believe) set during World War II and it’s a beautiful romane book, Her Theseus books (The King Must Die and Bull from the Sea) and interesting takes on the myth… oh she’s wonderful. And a real historian, too! I definitely second (third, or howevermany it is, now) Gore Vidal. Especially Live from Golgotha-- just finished that last night, actually. Witty and satirical and just great. (oh, and! Hi) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/55 "2003-02-20T19:01:55Z")
There is a good book about Murasaki herself: The Tale of Murasaki. Also, if you want really good historical fiction - I’ve been rereading Jane Austen again (actually books on tape in the car). It wasn’t historical when she wrote them, but its some of the best. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/56 "2003-02-20T19:23:17Z")
Here are two lightweights (in terms of historical details, major figures, etc., that is): _Perfume,_ by Patrick Suskind: about a young man with an extraordinary sense of smell–but no sense of morality–who seeks out the ultimate perfume; set in 18th-century France. _The Gift of Stones,_ by Jim Crace: about a village in the late stone age where expert craftspeople make their living by knapping flint, and about a one-armed boy who has to find some other way to earn his keep. Then there are my personal faves: _Our Only May Amelia_: About a young Finnish-American girl growing up on the Washington frontier at the turn of the century. _Boston Jane: An Adventure_ and _Boston Jane: Wilderness Days_: about a “proper young lady” from 1850s Philadelphia who foolishly follows her fiance to the Washington Territory … only to discover that he’s not there when she arrives. They were written by my sister, Jennifer Holm. 🙂 May Amelia won a silver Newbery medal. All are technically Young Adult books, though May Amelia, esp., has a much broader appeal. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/57 "2003-02-20T23:47:26Z")
Lissa – I didn’t see Sugar’s arrangement with William as a rescue (maybe because it was impossible to like him) so the Harlequin factor wasn’t there for me. That helped. I was bored by Henry too, but maybe he was needed so that we could meet his “girlfriend” (I’ve forgotten her name, shame on me). Poor Agnes – the first literary character I’ve met who thought her dreams were real. I liked that part a lot. Thank heaven I’ve read quite a few of the recommendations or this shopping list would be even longer (no decent library for miles around): The Red Tent Memoirs of Cleopatra The First Man in Rome The Winter King Silver Pigs The Game of Kings Niccolo Rising The New York Detective To Say Nothing of the Dog The Other Boleyn Girl Child of the Morning something by Kristin Lavransdatter if I can check it out on-line first – see how clumsy the translation feels the Conrad Richter books recommended by Sampiro The Professor and the Madman (been considering that one for awhile) The Quincunx (for a second read, I’d forgotten about this wonderful book!) Lest Darkness Fall I think historical fiction might be my favorite genre. It’s got everything. ---
**Author:** ![High\_Priestess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee7513/32.png) [@High\_Priestess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Priestess)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/58 "2003-02-21T00:37:17Z")
I absolutely recommend anything by James Clavell (Asian Saga; Shogun, Tai-pan, King Rat, etc.). I haven’t read **Memoirs of a Geisha** , but I’m told it was extremely inaccurate and _extremely_ offensive to Japanese who know their history. My fiancee read it and from what she’s told me (I myself am Japanese), they would be right. I also recommend **Killer Angels** , though I can’t remember how fictional it was (fiction based on nonfiction?). ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523/59 "2003-02-21T23:58:43Z")
I was afraid to reopen this thread – the shopping list is long enough. Thank heaven I’ve read the ones you recommended and agree – they’re great. Clavell is a great storyteller. I’d ask what was offensive about Geisha, but that’s probably a subject for a separate thread. I saw nothing in the book that would cause anyone to lose respect for Japanese people or their culture, except maybe the lack of opportunities for women, but that was true of most of the world in those days. Or maybe I’m not remembering the book very well. Hard to say. The ending sucked eggs IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-good-historical-fiction/155523.md?page=2)