# "Some marriages between consenting adults should be recognized, but not others" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 18, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988 "2014-11-18T19:06:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/101 "2014-11-19T23:12:38Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Well, they’re pretty rare now. If we get more immigration from India and the Middle East, they’ll certainly become more common, and there may be more public outrage directed towards them. As mentioned above, in England incestuous marriage among South Asian immigrants is a major social problem. How is it a problem and who is outraged? I can’t imagine Americans generally caring if people are marrying their cousins. I certainly wouldn’t raise an eyebrow. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/102 "2014-11-19T23:13:13Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > As mentioned above, in England incestuous marriage among South Asian immigrants is a major social problem. I’m sorry, I missed that in the scrum…would you please link the post for me? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/103 "2014-11-19T23:14:06Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > How is it a problem and who is outraged? I can’t imagine Americans generally caring if people are marrying their cousins. I certainly wouldn’t raise an eyebrow. I’m considering being outraged and I’m contemplated not being willing to take it any more. Sometime in the future, I’ll potentially protest. A lot. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/104 "2014-11-19T23:25:21Z")
I’ve found being mad as hell is pretty cost-effective. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/105 "2014-11-19T23:39:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s the “sometimes legal” cases that, I figure, finish any arguments against SSM that hinge on a lack of ability to procreate. In those six states, cousin marriage is contingent on _not_ reproducing, so there’s obviously no reason a requirement to reproduce or an expectation of reproduction is legally necessary. That’s fascinating. Maybe we should make SSM contingent on not reproducing (with each other.) Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/106 "2014-11-20T00:04:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s the “sometimes legal” cases that, I figure, finish any arguments against SSM that hinge on a lack of ability to procreate. In those six states, cousin marriage is contingent on _not_ reproducing, so there’s obviously no reason a requirement to reproduce or an expectation of reproduction is legally necessary. That’s a pretty excellent point! ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/107 "2014-11-20T15:23:54Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > How is it a problem and who is outraged? I can’t imagine Americans generally caring if people are marrying their cousins. I certainly wouldn’t raise an eyebrow. Seriously ? Societies where cousin marriage is customary end up having a lot of health problems causes by inbreeding, and probably lower IQ as well. They also are socially less cohesive, people identify with their family and clan rather than the broader society. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/108 "2014-11-20T15:29:34Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Seriously ? > > Societies where cousin marriage is customary end up having a lot of health problems causes by inbreeding, and probably lower IQ as well. They also are socially less cohesive, people identify with their family and clan rather than the broader society. Nice opinion, you’ve got there. Got fact? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/109 "2014-11-20T15:33:17Z")
I’m going with “It _seems_ like it should be correct.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/110 "2014-11-20T17:22:28Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Parent child marriage is never becoming legal, so you don’t have to worry about that. But as it relates to the OP, why should any marriage between consenting adults not be legal? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/111 "2014-11-20T17:25:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But as it relates to the OP, why should any marriage between consenting adults not be legal? Because of the dangers of grooming. A terrible person who knows that his daughter can consent to marry him at 18 might raise her specifically in such a way as to convince her to give her consent at the age of 18. This is not a situation we want to encourage. It’s also not remotely analogous to anything involving SSM. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/112 "2014-11-20T17:29:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But as it relates to the OP, why should any marriage between consenting adults not be legal? Get me a dozen such couples, and let me hear what they have to say. That’s how I was convinced that SSM should be legal – by hearing from multiple gay couples. For me to evaluate any other sorts of possible unions, I need to hear from both partners in several such couples/groups/whatever, ask them questions, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/113 "2014-11-20T17:31:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Because of the dangers of grooming. A terrible person who knows that his daughter can consent to marry him at 18 might raise her specifically in such a way as to convince her to give her consent at the age of 18. This is not a situation we want to encourage. It’s also not remotely analogous to anything involving SSM. But she can be groomed for lots of stuff we might not approve of. She could be groomed to join ISIS, or she could be groomed to think it’s a good idea to marry an inmate as an act of compassion. And that leaves out the possibility that there was no “grooming”. Let’s say the father was away for 18 years and gets reunited. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/114 "2014-11-20T17:32:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But she can be groomed for lots of stuff we might not approve of. She could be groomed to join ISIS, or she could be groomed to think it’s a good idea to marry an inmate as an act of compassion. > > And that leaves out the possibility that there was no “grooming”. Let’s say the father was away for 18 years and gets reunited. That’s one of the reasons why we can’t evaluate such a pairing without talking to multiple examples of such a pairing. I couldn’t evaluate gay marriage until I heard from multiple gay couples. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/115 "2014-11-20T17:35:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > My uncle has been married six times, and I suspect most of his wives married him because he’s filthy rich from his slumlord earnings. If I’m thinking of skeevy as hell marriages, first cousin marriages aren’t where my mind goes to first. I guess it depends on how close said cousins are - I’d have little issue with like two people who get together into adulthood and find out they were estranged cousins or something like that. OTOH, if they’ve spent every holiday together since y’all were three or four, or grew up in a tight knit family all in the same property/neighbourhood… that’s getting into ew.ew.ew.ew.ew. to me. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/116 "2014-11-20T17:36:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Get me a dozen such couples, and let me hear what they have to say. That’s how I was convinced that SSM should be legal – by hearing from multiple gay couples. For me to evaluate any other sorts of possible unions, I need to hear from both partners in several such couples/groups/whatever, ask them questions, and so on. Please. This is a just cop-out wrapped up to look pretty. Feel free to opine if you’d like, or not. I mean if there’s just no we for you to fathom the arguments for a parent-offspring parent, why do you post to simply say, “I don’t and can’t have an opinion about this.”? It’s not like the question was asked of you specifically. Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/117 "2014-11-20T17:38:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Please. This is a just cop-out wrapped up to look pretty. Feel free to opine if you’d like, or not. I mean if there’s just no we for you to fathom the arguments for a parent-offspring parent, why do you post to simply say, “I don’t and can’t have an opinion about this.”? It’s not like the question was asked of you specifically. Yeesh. I don’t and can’t have an opinion about this until I were to talk to multiple such couples. How could I? I could have an opinion about hypothetical couples that you describe, and you create answers to questions as you think they would, but that doesn’t help for real-world policy. And come on… don’t whine about people answering questions you pose in GD. It’s GD, for god’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/118 "2014-11-20T17:39:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s one of the reasons why we can’t evaluate such a pairing without talking to multiple examples of such a pairing. I couldn’t evaluate gay marriage until I heard from multiple gay couples. I don’t think that’s anything to be proud of. It points to you using emotionalism to decide an issue that is one of principle. But hey, if that works for you… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/119 "2014-11-20T17:40:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t and can’t have an opinion about this until I were to talk to multiple such couples. How could I? I could have an opinion about hypothetical couples that you describe, and you create answers to questions as you think they would, but that doesn’t help for real-world policy. > > And come on… don’t whine about people answering questions you pose in GD. It’s GD, for god’s sake! Reading? Empathy? Using your imagination to craft the best arguments both for and against. Does this really need to be pointed out to you? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988/120 "2014-11-20T17:43:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > that’s getting into ew.ew.ew.ew.ew. to me. Isn’t this the exact same argument some used against SSM? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-marriages-between-consenting-adults-should-be-recognized-but-not-others/704988.md?page=7)