# Some Odd Soccer Questions (spoilers for the movie Shaolin Soccer) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 19, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027 "2015-11-19T23:07:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/1 "2015-11-19T23:07:20Z")
I love Shaolin Soccer. I’ve seen it a dozen or so times. Now, of course, it is silly and completely fictional but I have some questions about what would happen in reality with respect to some of the happenings in the movie. 1 - At one point, Team Shaolin is up 40 to 0. Would the game have been stopped long before this point? If so, is there an official lead that is needed to force a game stoppage? 2 - During the movie one of the monks uses Iron Shirt technique to grasp the ball with his belly and carry it across the goal line. Would this be permitted? (since grasping the ball with your belly is not very possible, let’s say instead somebody has the ball balanced on their shoulder) 3 - In another scene, the Team Evil goaltender has no chance to stop the ball. He hits the net causing it to shake and strike the ball away. Would this be permitted? I recognize that there might not be a rule for the last two one since they are pretty impossible. Thanks in advance as always! ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/2 "2015-11-19T23:20:21Z")
1. No. The record win in international soccer (I think) was Australia 31 - 0 American Samoa, in 2000 or 2001. I bet there have been bigger wins in domestic competitions around the world. 2. Not sure about this one. 3. A goal is scored when the ball crosses the goal line. By the time it hits the net it’s usually too late. So causing the ball to bounce back out of the goal won’t prevent the goal being scored. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/3 "2015-11-19T23:21:46Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > 1 - At one point, Team Shaolin is up 40 to 0. Would the game have been stopped long before this point? If so, is there an official lead that is needed to force a game stoppage? There is there is no upper limit (“cricket scores” like that were more common in days gone by before the offside rule, and also when many nations simply did not have even remotely professional teams, and would end up playing nations that did). In a league situation other results could be decided on goal difference, so there would be no reason to. > [@](#): > > 2 - During the movie one of the monks uses Iron Shirt technique to grasp the ball with his belly and carry it across the goal line. Would this be permitted? (since grasping the ball with your belly is not very possible, let’s say instead somebody has the ball balanced on their shoulder) That’s fine, The[Laws of the Game](http://www.fifa.com/development/education-and-technical/referees/laws-of-the-game.html) say… > [@](#): > > Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with > the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into > consideration: > • the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand) > • the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball) > • the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an > infringement > • touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) > counts as an infringement > • hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an > infringement > [@](#): > > 3 - In another scene, the Team Evil goaltender has no chance to stop the ball. He hits the net causing it to shake and strike the ball away. Would this be permitted? That would count as an object interfering with play: > [@](#): > > If an extra ball, other object or animal enters the field of play during the match, > the referee must stop the match only if it interferes with play. Play must be > restarted by a dropped ball from the position of the match ball when play > was stopped, unless play was stopped inside the goal area, in which case the > referee drops the ball on the goal area line parallel to the goal line at the point > nearest to where the ball was located when play was stopped. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/4 "2015-11-19T23:47:38Z")
I love this website. Where else can you get answers to … ummm… realism in a completely silly movie. Thanks!! ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/5 "2015-11-19T23:53:07Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > 1. A goal is scored when the ball crosses the goal line. By the time it hits the net it’s usually too late. So causing the ball to bounce back out of the goal won’t prevent the goal being scored. I probably didn’t describe it well enough. The ball has not crossed the line. It is heading towards the top left corner. The Team Evil goaltender strikes the right side post so violently that the entire net shakes, the left post strikes the ball and sends it flying away. I think griffin has probably answered it with their post. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/6 "2015-11-19T23:57:03Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I probably didn’t describe it well enough. The ball has not crossed the line. It is heading towards the top left corner. The Team Evil goaltender strikes the right side post so violently that the entire net shakes, the left post strikes the ball and sends it flying away. > > I think griffin has probably answered it with their post. Oh, right. Yeah, I misunderstood what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/7 "2015-11-20T00:48:13Z")
Even if holding the ball with your abdominal muscles is unrealistic, it seems like it would be possible to catch it between your head and shoulder, or behind your knee. Could you then walk (or hop) across the goal line and drop the ball there? Are you even allowed to step across the goal line? Something I’ve always wondered is what prevents a team from getting a lead and then kicking the ball into a corner and forming a circle around it? Is there a limit to how long you can keep the ball without moving it? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/8 "2015-11-20T01:07:23Z")
2 can quite possibly be playing in a dangerous manner = indirect freekick for the opponent. The requirements: a) must be dangerous to somebody ( **including the player performing the act** ) b) done with an opponent nearby, and c) makes the opponent not try to play the ball due to the injury risk. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/9 "2015-11-20T01:54:52Z")
1. is most definitely not allowable in soccer and would result in an indirect free-kick either for dangerous play and/or for unsporting behaviour. There is a bit of a gray area, for example the infamous “seal dribble” (bouncing the ball on your head), is just about legal, but on the other hand some referees might see it as dangerous play. However holding the ball with some part of your body for an extended period (for example between your legs) is generally recognized as dangerous and/or unsporting. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/10 "2015-11-20T02:08:28Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > Something I’ve always wondered is what prevents a team from getting a lead and then kicking the ball into a corner and forming a circle around it? Is there a limit to how long you can keep the ball without moving it? If players not in possession of the ball are preventing the opposition from getting to the ball then that is obstruction and a free kick. The referee could also rule ungentlemanly conduct. On the other hand a player in possession can simply stand with the ball against the corner post for as long as they want. It’s not an unheard of strategy at any level of the game though the time involved usually amounts to killing off a few seconds. > [@](#): > > Is there a limit to how long you can keep the ball without moving it? Yes, but that limit is the duration of each half. ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/11 "2015-11-20T06:33:44Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > 1. is most definitely not allowable in soccer and would result in an indirect free-kick either for dangerous play and/or for unsporting behaviour. > > There is a bit of a gray area, for example the infamous “seal dribble” (bouncing the ball on your head), is just about legal, but on the other hand some referees might see it as dangerous play. However holding the ball with some part of your body for an extended period (for example between your legs) is generally recognized as dangerous and/or unsporting. As depicted in the movie (as I recall), it wasn’t precisely like he was holding it. This is one of those movies where “due to his extreme mastery of Kung Fu” is an adequate explanation for magic. The magic in question here is that one player has the ability to make an object stick to his stomach. It is just hanging there on the front of his shirt. Other players may freely try to remove it by kicks, but it is strongly held in place so they will fail. So yeah, unsporting, but probably not more “dangerous” than normal dribbling. I’d also like to suggest that if touching the ball with an object held in your hand or a thrown object counts as infringement, so would using the physical goal to strike the ball. But since that rule is about touching the ball with your hand, which goalies are allowed to do, would it be permitted? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/12 "2015-11-20T08:29:06Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > 1. No. The record win in international soccer (I think) was Australia 31 - 0 American Samoa, in 2000 or 2001. I bet there have been bigger wins in domestic competitions around the world. Not an international match, but there was the [infamous 149-0 game](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS_Adema_149%E2%80%930_SO_l%27Emyrne) between two teams in Madagascar. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/13 "2015-11-20T09:10:47Z")
**Moderator Action** Since this concerns the rules of a game, let’s move this to the Game Room. Moving thread from General Questions to the Game Room. ---
**Author:** ![Shearer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/57b2e6/32.png) [@Shearer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shearer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/14 "2015-11-20T12:50:20Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > There is there is no upper limit (“cricket scores” like that were more common in days gone by before the offside rule There has always been an offside rule in Association football. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/15 "2015-11-20T19:57:56Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > As depicted in the movie (as I recall), it wasn’t precisely like he was holding it. > This is one of those movies where “due to his extreme mastery of Kung Fu” is an adequate explanation for magic. > The magic in question here is that one player has the ability to make an object stick to his stomach. It is just hanging there on the front of his shirt. Other players may freely try to remove it by kicks, but it is strongly held in place so they will fail. > > So yeah, unsporting, but probably not more “dangerous” than normal dribbling. > > I’d also like to suggest that if touching the ball with an object held in your hand or a thrown object counts as infringement, so would using the physical goal to strike the ball. But since that rule is about touching the ball with your hand, which goalies are allowed to do, would it be permitted? I’ve actually seen the movie, I used to have it on DVD in fact and I agree it is a good movie. It is the kind of play that if it were actually possible to do would certainly result in an indirect free kick and a yellow card for unsporting behaviour (using a trick to circumvent the handball rule has specifically been deemed unsporting behaviour by FIFA). It is dangerous as other players would have to kick at around his midriff to try to dislodge the ball. Though FIFA’s guidance is not 100% clear on goalkeepers using objects to handle the ball, though again it would be at the very least unsporting behaviour and play would have to stop to issue a red card (when a goal was prevented) to the keeper and an indirect free kick would result. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/16 "2015-11-20T20:45:27Z")
> [@Shearer](#): > > There has always been an offside rule in Association football. [Not so](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheffield_Rules#Sheffield_and_London). ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-odd-soccer-questions-spoilers-for-the-movie-shaolin-soccer/738027/17 "2015-11-20T22:25:53Z")
What about the final winning goal, where a shot is hit so hard that it creates a bow shockwave that wipes out the goal and the goalie prior to the ball crossing the line. Would “dangerous play” negate this goal?