# Some old white women. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 20, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249 "2016-12-20T18:22:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/121 "2016-12-23T01:57:37Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Personal opinion is that the reason some men are so disgruntled and whiny about “women” and view them as complicated is because the average man is more aesthetically challenged than the average woman. > > Truth of the matter is that men and women are “different” more in degree than in kind, both are fundamentally human. Average man however doesn’t have as keen an aesthetic or beauty sense as the average woman, he thinks too ‘reductive’ and only in terms of boring facts and details, rather than in terms of aesthetics and sensory experience. > > Basically the average guy comes across to a woman as a person with Asperger’s disorder comes across to the average Joe. > > In some ways I blame modern society for encouraging this, as I feel that society on the whole tends to lean people in the direction of viewing everything in boring, mundane detail, particularily after the industrial revolution, and in modern corporate-dominated 1st world countries, as this does help expedite efficiency when it comes to business, but reduces everything to a boring grey blob. > > If the average schmuck learned to improve his aesthetic or art sense without being afraid of seeming “gay”, then he’d be a natural with women without even having to “think” about it, or attempt to use any pre-reheased “tactics” or pick up lines. > > **This is why musicians still get the most ass of any demographic in males, they aren’t aesthetically retarded like the average boring male cubicle drone who’s about as fun for women to listen to as watching paint dry.** Not sure how this relates to the topic at hand but I can very much smell what you’re cooking in that last paragraph:) ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/122 "2016-12-23T03:29:59Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Not sure how this relates to the topic at hand but I can very much smell what you’re cooking in that last paragraph:) What does it smell like, chitlins? ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/123 "2016-12-23T13:36:19Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > What does it smell like, chitlins? Teen Spirit (the deodorant). I was agreeing with your last sentiment. Then I read your thread about the state of today’s unmanly men and I, um. . . really must go 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/124 "2016-12-23T15:59:17Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > The entire OP seems like nothing but manslaining to me. > > You really believe men stop opening doors for women once they’re no longer young and attractive? Or that cranky older women are just bitter they aren’t being fawned over for their beauty any more? > > Sorry, but that’s straight up mansplaining in my book. You really think that society doesn’t treat young white women differently than the rest of the world. Its not that we treat old white women like shit, they still have plenty of privilege. They’re just bitter that they have lost some of that privilege and use what privilege they have left to be unbearable to those around them. They think they are just being assertive or something but they are just being bitches. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/125 "2016-12-23T16:01:20Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Due to my EX I literally have old woman PTSD. > > And no, it is no joke. There are literally behaviours, that for lack of a better description I would call “bitchy stupid arguementative old woman shit”. > > Yes, men will pull that crap. Or younger women. But IME its going to be older woman pulling it. > > About three sentences into such behavior and I am outa fucking there. Either by leaving or saying you are full of shit. > > Seriously. > [@billfish678](#): > > If the words: > > Calm down > > Be quite > > STFU > > or if you are so fucking smart do it yourself… > > Do NOT cause you to: > > Calm down > > Be quite > > STFU > > or just fucking do it yourself… > > Well, then you are on your way. So you said “shut the fuck up” and “if you are so fucking smart do it yourself” to your SO, and she did not react well (surprise!) and YOU’RE the one with PTSD? You poor, poor thing. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/126 "2016-12-23T16:04:35Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So you said “shut the fuck up” and “if you are so fucking smart do it yourself” to your SO, and she did not react well (surprise!) and YOU’RE the one with PTSD? > > You poor, poor thing. You don’t say those things the first time. You say them after the millionth time they haven’t calmed down been quiet STFUd been fucking smart enough to do it themself ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/127 "2016-12-23T16:07:07Z")
Bingo to the post above. Yes, when your SO wants to start the same fucking stupid arguement for the literally the 500th time…Miss Manners guidelines kinda fall a bit short. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/128 "2016-12-23T16:18:11Z")
[quote=“Dangerosa, post:118, topic:775249”] > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Actually, the original instance of mansplaining was a man telling a woman about a book SHE wrote. He didn’t realize she was the author, he just assumed that his expertise carried more weight than hers (although he’d never read the book). I’m familiar with the origin story. > [@](#): > > So yeah, what you did was mansplaining - you assumed your knowledge of feminist history was greater than mine for no reason at all and saw fit to correct me and make yourself an expert. Instead, you made yourself look like an idiot. > > This is the quote from your own link "when a man condescendingly lectures a woman on the basics of a topic about which he knows very little, under the mistaken assumption that she knows even less. " Nothing in there about you having to know a damn thing about what I know - its sufficient for you to think you know more than I do. I always thought that Mansplaining required that I talk to you differently than I would talk to a man. There there be some sexist condescension or patronizing going on. > [@](#): > > And then you did it a second time with the word mansplaining. > > It may be - as your link said - an overused word - but its a really overused rhetorical style - as women have known for years. The overuse mansplaining as a conversational technique is far worse, in my opinion, than the overuse of the word. I think you’re crying wolf. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/129 "2016-12-23T18:44:30Z")
[quote=“Damuri\_Ajashi, post:128, topic:775249”] > [@Dangerosa](#): > > I always thought that Mansplaining required that I talk to you differently than I would talk to a man. There there be some sexist condescension or patronizing going on. Again, nothing in your own cite that says that. But I do have to admit that the “I’m a patronizing asshole to everyone” is not a great defense in a thread you opened to complain about other people being bitchy. ---
**Author:** ![Donpeyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a4c791/32.png) [@Donpeyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donpeyote)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/130 "2016-12-23T19:30:39Z")
I love Kate/Mr.Kaplan from “The Blacklist” and would love to vacation with her on the Baltic coasts oldest European Resort of Rauschen (Eastern Prussia/ Near Kaliningrad/Pioneer Russia) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/131 "2016-12-23T19:58:57Z")
[quote=“Dangerosa, post:129, topic:775249”] > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Again, nothing in your own cite that says that. But I do have to admit that the “I’m a patronizing asshole to everyone” is not a great defense in a thread you opened to complain about other people being bitchy. I don’t recall saying “I’m a patronizing asshole to everyone” So is your claim that mansplaining does not require at least a touch of condescension, and sexism. DO you think I can mansplain things to another man or just to women? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/132 "2016-12-23T20:04:31Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Not a trick question at all. There isn’t a fecking thing I or anyone ON A MESSAGE BOARD can do to change the fact that humans form opinions based on their experiences. If the OP is in earnest, than that’s his reality; in his world, old white women ARE bitches. So what? That’s for him to live with or work out or whatever. Even if I could (which neither I nor anyone else can), it’s not my place to change his mind. Maybe one day his life will take him to a place where he meets kind, delightful old white women. Opinions can change but they only change through living. > > This is why I get frustrated with this place sometimes. It seems like some people think their tut tutting is going to change things. In my opinion that’s folly and only serves to make this place a real drag sometimes. If you genuinely believe that, then why are you here? This board is about fighting ignorance. But here you’re saying that only real life can actually disabuse someone of their ignorant views. And, somehow, talking to people with different views isn’t “real life” because it’s online. I and many other people have had their ignorant views changed on this board. Because that’s what we do. Bigotry may be a harder issue to tackle, but we’ve had plenty of people learn from it. I’ve seen plenty of transphobic people no longer say transphobic things. And it sure as hell your responsibility as a decent human being to try and change the minds of the bigots out there. How the fuck is it not? How do you think the world gets any better if all the “good” people just ignore all this and think some magic will change their reality? Or do you just not give a shit about all the bigotry in the world and the people it hurts? Life is good enough for you, so you don’t care about anyone else? We kinda have to try and make the world better if we care even slightly about other people. We actively work to change these people’s realities by exposing them to ideas that they would otherwise not see. And, even if they get mad and argue against you, it doesn’t mean they didn’t hear you, and that the kernel of an idea isn’t there. It’s the only way things can possibly change. You can’t just sit back and hope that things will get better on their own. That’s just doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I’m sorry it frustrates you, but it’s kinda the _raison d’être_ of this board. Bigotry is one of the worst kinds of bigotry out there. We’re gonna fight it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/133 "2016-12-23T20:20:11Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > DO you think I can mansplain things to another man or just to women? I’m presuming this was what you said. When you fuck up the quoting, you really should take the time to fix it, to keep clear who is saying what. And probably report the original mess up, so the mods can fix it, too. Mansplaining is rather poorly named. While the original examples had to do with men condescendingly explaining things to women who obviously knew more about it than them, the concept transcends gender. You can do it to anyone. I would point out that the condescension involved is not the one that happens when someone is just trying to factually explain something to someone, and the other person takes it as condescension. No, it is being condescending towards someone else without regard to the fact that they may know more about the subject than you do. And it requires that a reasonable person would think the other person might know more than you do. It usually but not always occurs because of unconscious biases, thinking the pretty woman can’t know as much, or the young man, or the black guy, etc. Point is, while I avoid the word due to the inherent sexism in its coinage (why the fuck make it sound like only men can do it–that just hurts the cause), its use by Dangerosa is 100% correct. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/134 "2016-12-23T20:48:42Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You don’t say those things the first time. You say them after the millionth time they haven’t > > calmed down > been quiet > STFUd > been fucking smart enough to do it themself And wanting those things is the problem in the first place. STFU is about the only one that’s sorta okay–if you’re talking about some racist shithole who you just can’t get through to. The rest are just ways to dismiss what other people have to say. If someone isn’t calm, that’s because they believe they have a reason to be upset. If they haven’t been quiet, it means they have something to say that they don’t believe has been heard. And if “do it yourself” were a solution, they would have already done so. This shit is the hallmark of the people in power refusing to listen to those below them. You think things will be fine if people would just shut up. But it’s not. And, if you refuse to listen, then they’re just going to get louder. What you are talking about is the bane of all activism–the people who tell the activists to shut up rather than listening to their problems. It’s a fucked up way to think. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/135 "2016-12-23T20:59:09Z")
Big T. Putting the T in sanctimonious on the net since 2001. Are you telling me you cannot even comprehend a scenario where one person actually IS being fucking stupid, has always BEEN stupid about said issue, and will NOT STFU about it for the several hundreth time? Hell, lets go one step further. In the interest of being fair. Lets go with said person NOT actually being a dumb fuck about some issue. It actually IS an issue where you might go “well, I could see it going either way”. Person A wants X. Person B wants Y. They have had this discussion literally a couple hundred times. Person A ain’t giving in. Neither is person B. But person B want to fight about it YET again. Person A ain’t interested in discussing it even one more fucking time. What the fuck does person B think they are going to accomplish? Besides start another fight and generate even more bad feelings? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/136 "2016-12-23T21:06:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t recall saying “I’m a patronizing asshole to everyone” > > So is your claim that mansplaining does not require at least a touch of condescension, and sexism. > > DO you think I can mansplain things to another man or just to women? Here again is your cite: > [@](#): > > when a man condescendingly lectures a woman on the basics of a topic about which he knows very little, under the mistaken assumption that she knows even less. By that definition, it does have to be a man to a woman, but the definition is completely silent regarding how men speak to other men. As for patronizing asshole - that’s my own term that I used before “mansplaining” was coined to describe the same behavior. You are saying you talk this way to everyone. I’m saying “wow, ‘I’m often a patronizing asshole to everyone regardless of gender’ seems to be an example of the pot calling the kettle black when you take into account the content of your OP.” By your cite, mansplaining can only be done by a man to a woman - the term patronizing asshole is more inclusive. If you are a man talking to a woman, you can simultanously be mansplaining and be a patronizing asshole. If you are a woman talking to another woman, a woman talking to a man, or a man talking to another man - then you are just a patronizing asshole. All poodles are dogs, not all dogs are poodles. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/137 "2016-12-23T21:12:15Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Big T. > > Putting the T in sanctimonious on the net since 2001. > > Are you telling me you cannot even comprehend a scenario where one person actually IS being fucking stupid, has always BEEN stupid about said issue, and will NOT STFU about it for the several hundreth time? > > Hell, lets go one step further. In the interest of being fair. Lets go with said person NOT actually being a dumb fuck about some issue. It actually IS an issue where you might go “well, I could see it going either way”. > > Person A wants X. Person B wants Y. They have had this discussion literally a couple hundred times. > > Person A ain’t giving in. Neither is person B. > > But person B want to fight about it YET again. Person A ain’t interested in discussing it even one more fucking time. > > What the fuck does person B think they are going to accomplish? > > Besides start another fight and generate even more bad feelings? What does Person A think will be accomplished by saying “shut the fuck up”? Warm and lovely feelings of adoration and respect? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/138 "2016-12-23T21:16:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Is it misogynist if its true? Everyone who says and believes bigoted shit thinks they’re just telling the truth. So truth can never be a defense. In fact, I’d suggest people consider whether something they want to say would be bigoted if it were false before saying it. Your OP is problematic at best. The part about the biggest racists you meat being old ladies, and just saying that’s your personal experience, and asking if it’s the same for others. That’s generally okay. But that’s not the bulk of your post. The bulk of your post is your explanations for why this is the case. You bring up the old canard that older women are bitchy because they used to be pretty and got privileges because of it. You try to blame second wave feminism for them being horrible people. You make up stories about them living in suburbia (although you have no reason to think that). In short, while you use weasel words to try and get out of it, you spend most of your post attacking all people of a certain group. There’s a reason why the only people agreeing with you are the Dopers known for saying bigoted, racist, and sexist shit. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/139 "2016-12-23T21:42:58Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > What does Person A think will be accomplished by saying “shut the fuck up”? Warm and lovely feelings of adoration and respect? I guess you missed the concept of time and its passage. You reason with the person the first hundred times. You bite your lip the next couple hundred. You go “we’ve talked about this 300 times now and nothing is changing”. You try actually just ignoring them another 100 or so (good luck with that (see ending sentence)). At SOME point IMO STFU is a perfectly valid response. Yeah, that is rude as fuck. But so is starting a discussion that has NO point and will just turn into a fight. Futhermore, I take it you have never meet a woman who wanted to argue. Whoever it was that said “it takes two to argue” never meet one. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249/140 "2016-12-23T21:46:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No single event would justify this sort of generalization. Any single event can’t help but make this rant seem petty and anecdotal. The OP is based on a lifetime of observation working in retail stores, observing how people behave, etc. > > Based on the responses, I am not alone in this observation. Until fairly recently I did not understand the differences between the different waves of feminism but once I got my mind around it, it seemed like all the really nasty women I knew personally were actually second wave feminists (whether they knew it or not). So I limited my characterization to that subset of women. Well 2nd wave feminism primarily appealed to nasty women who fancy that behaving in ways that would make a feral dog blush empowers them, when it really just degrades them to the level of leftover pieces of meat to be consumed like a stale Big Mac, and probably did more to propagate the exploitation of women via commercial porn than “empower” then in the slightest. Essentially a cabal of horny old white men who run most of the smut entertainment industry convinced women that being whores too stupid even to charge for their services was somehow “empowering” them, when in reality it just made them easier prey for men with rapacious desires. So I’m quite sure those kind of women are utterly miserable, yeah - it’s just karma in action, since they are little more than useless pieces of meat to be consumed by the most desperate curs of the male sex like a dog licking up it’s own vomit - I’m sure they hate their meaningless little existences, but that’s just the natural karmic consequence for being a guttural slut devoid of class or anything remotely “feminine”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-old-white-women/775249.md?page=8)