# Some Olympic questions... **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 29, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797 "2012-07-29T21:33:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/161 "2012-08-10T20:19:30Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Agreed. The post that I questioned was written as if it was a fact. With the ‘Top 8’ ranking goal, it still doesn’t explain why they would play 9-10 game. Do we have a real example of a 9-10 game? Or was that just a number thrown out in this thread without basis? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/162 "2012-08-10T20:25:18Z")
What is surface of the field hockey field? I had assumed it was played on grass but the blue field doesn’t even look like astro turf. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/163 "2012-08-10T21:40:33Z")
Field Hockey pitches are well-regulated. Here is the FIH page on pitches. > **[Fédération Internationale de Hockey | Official Website](https://www.fih.hockey)** > > The International Hockey Federation is the governing body for the sport of hockey. The FIH website brings news, schedule, results, ranking and live scores. Glancing through pdf links, synthetic surfaces are now very common, of a variety of types. The generically approved color is green with white lines. I cannot find reference to blue, other than a remark that non-green/white schemes must be approved by the FIH. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/164 "2012-08-10T22:08:32Z")
The blue hockey pitch was addressed today in a BBC piece [London 2012: 20 more Olympic oddities](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19180559): _London 2012 is the first world hockey event to be played on a different coloured synthetic turf to the traditional green. The water-based surface at the Hockey Centre at the Olympic Park in London uses a high-performance polyethylene resin, helping to make it the world’s fastest pitch. The run-off areas are shocking pink, and the colour changes are designed to improve viewing for players, officials, spectators and broadcasters._ ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/165 "2012-08-11T00:46:29Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Do we have a real example of a 9-10 game? Or was that just a number thrown out in this thread without basis? NBC’S online schedule for [today](http://www.nbcolympics.com/online-listings/day=august-10/index.html) shows a “women’s classification (11-12)” game in field hockey, which I assume is the game to determine the final rankings of the 11th- and 12th-place teams. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/166 "2012-08-11T06:59:53Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > It’s been answered above. The Olympics wants rankings of the top eight in all events for the record. Below that, they don’t care. > > Also, it’s not well known, but places four, five, and six get no medals but they do get certificates. AFAIK, neither beach nor court volleyball have additional games to determine anything below 4th–you lose in the quarterfinals and you’re done. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/167 "2012-08-11T12:30:35Z")
And the boxing doesn’t even have a play-off for the bronze medal so that top eight claim for every event is bunk. [Boxing News, Live Events and latest Highlights](http://www.london2012.com/boxing/about/) Incidentally, does anybody know _why_ they don’t have a bronze playoff? I initially assumed this was because it would be churlish to force people to cause potential injury to each other for just a third place but that doesn’t seem like the sort of thing the boxing authorities would want to insinuate. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/168 "2012-08-11T19:56:29Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > And the boxing doesn’t even have a play-off for the bronze medal so that top eight claim for every event is bunk. [Boxing News, Live Events and latest Highlights](http://www.london2012.com/boxing/about/) > > Incidentally, does anybody know _why_ they don’t have a bronze playoff? I initially assumed this was because it would be churlish to force people to cause potential injury to each other for just a third place but that doesn’t seem like the sort of thing the boxing authorities would want to insinuate. It’s rare in the Olympics but boxers do sometimes lose by being knocked out. To force someone who lost in the semi in this manner to box again the next day isn’t a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/169 "2012-08-12T01:28:43Z")
That makes sense, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/170 "2012-08-12T01:31:28Z")
Anybody know why the Men’s Soccer final was played in the afternoon? I was expecting to be able to watch it in the afternoon here in Texas (like the Women’s final, Euro Cup final, Champions League final, etc.). I figured soccer would be a “prime time” type event. I slept in without checking the schedule and it was already over by the time I woke up. To add to the discussion of places below 3rd, basketball had games to decide down to 11th/12th place up through the 2004 games. The last 12th place finisher was Angola. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/171 "2012-08-12T04:31:47Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Do we have a real example of a 9-10 game? Or was that just a number thrown out in this thread without basis? > **[ESPN - Serving Sports Fans. Anytime. Anywhere.](https://www.espn.com/)** > > Visit ESPN for live scores, highlights and sports news. Stream exclusive games on ESPN+ and play fantasy sports. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/172 "2012-08-12T14:25:21Z")
The U.S. women’s 4x100 relay team broke the world record, which was held by East Germany. Does anyone know if there are any other records still held by countries which don’t exist anymore, particularly East Germany and the Soviet Union? ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/173 "2012-08-12T14:30:46Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The U.S. women’s 4x100 relay team broke the world record, which was held by East Germany. Does anyone know if there are any other records still held by countries which don’t exist anymore, particularly East Germany and the Soviet Union? If you include individuals rather than just “team”, there are several. Look [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics) - there’s men’s hammer and quite a few women’s records. ---
**Author:** ![booklover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@booklover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/174 "2012-08-14T01:03:53Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > I’ve noticed several times that a coach will hover near a gymnast doing a routine on the bars, presumably to catch him/her in the event of a fall. I have never noticed that before this Olympics. Is it new, or long-standing and I just have not noticed before? Trivia note: spotting was first allowed after American Jennifer Sey broke her leg at 1985 Worlds after hitting her leg on the top bar. I have seen some coaches break an athlete’s fall, but some coaches don’t spot (i.e. use their arms) if an athlete looks like she is headed for a safe fall. There’s a deduction from the athlete’s score if the coach touches her and she doesn’t fall. On a bail-half (aka shootover or shoot-half; [about 0:25-0:27 here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoCDggoOIfM)) some coaches put an arm up as a visual cue. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Another question. This year I’ve actually noticed some changes in the typical routines that the gymnasts do. And they’re all doing it. For years, one of the typical moves in the female floor routine was this weird landing where they’re tumbling and tumbling and right after they stop, they kind of crash to the floor like a belly flop and go into some on-the-ground routines. Nobody did that this year. What I have noticed instead is during the tumbling runs on the floor routine, instead of sticking the landing, the girls do a kind of split-legged jump into the air. > > Were these new moves just something someone added, then everyone started doing because it gave extra points? Or did the international gymnastics federation start mandating it? I think your “belly flop” is a Shushunova ([0:58-1:00](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQQUjUe4F_U)). The Shushunova is no longer as valuable as it once was since it’s harder to connect to more highly valued moves. There is a new rule in the Code of Points (official gymnastics rules) that women have to stick their tumbling passes as the men do. About 18 months after the 2009-2012 Code was released, some clever coach realized that if a gymnast leaps out of her tumbling pass the “stick” is easier to fudge. So–the reason for the leap is both to avoid deduction and to accrue bonus. The Code gets revised after each Olympics and rumor has it that the next code will allow women to take the traditional lunge out of one pass but that the others must be stuck. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > A gymnastics question: > > Gabby Douglas screwed up on the women’s uneven bars. She went into a handstand and was supposed to fall one way, but didn’t have momentum and went the other way. She switched hands and pretty much completed the routine. The NBC commentator said that most people wouldn’t get that but in every Olympics I’ve seen, if a gymnast misses a routine, does it out of order, or whatever, everybody knows. How? Do the judges have a sheet of paper telling them what move is coming up next? Or maybe the gymnasts do the routine so much they have it down prior to the games, but then wouldn’t that make it impossible to change on the fly? Aren’t they allowed to improvise on the spot if they want to? There must be some coordination between the gymnasts because on TV they show the max score for the routine so they seem like they already know what it is Taking the easiest part of this question first–there are 2 panels in gymnastics, difficulty (D) and execution (E). The max start value of a routine is automatically the D score plus 10 (the maximum execution score). When your TV provider flashes the maximum score they’re just showing the D panel score plus 10. Each routine’s D score is assessed based on what the gymnast actually does, not what they did on another day. The gymnast can improvise, but it’s tough to do on bars–far easier to cover up on beam or floor. In this instance, Gabby gets her E-score deducted for lack of flow and her D-score suffers because she didn’t complete the intended pirouette and does not connect the pirouette to the next move. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/175 "2012-08-14T21:57:10Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > And the boxing doesn’t even have a play-off for the bronze medal so that top eight claim for every event is bunk. [Boxing News, Live Events and latest Highlights](http://www.london2012.com/boxing/about/) I don’t see that listed. Whereas this page lists bronze medals for boxing. [http://www.london2012.com/boxing/medals/](http://www.london2012.com/boxing/medals/) > [@booklover](#): > > There is a new rule in the Code of Points (official gymnastics rules) that women have to stick their tumbling passes as the men do. About 18 months after the 2009-2012 Code was released, some clever coach realized that if a gymnast leaps out of her tumbling pass the “stick” is easier to fudge. So–the reason for the leap is both to avoid deduction and to accrue bonus. That was my original surmise, but watching it in action, it might be able to fudge a small off-balance, but they tend to stand out by the directional movement of the bounce. Instead of being straight up, they move forward, or to the side. And there’s big risk, where we saw several bounce out of the ring. Because a small hop in place near the edge of the ring becomes a big lateral motion over the line. > [@](#): > > The Code gets revised after each Olympics and rumor has it that the next code will allow women to take the traditional lunge out of one pass but that the others must be stuck. I can certainly see that. Stuck landings are one of the hallmarks of good gymnastics, having them go away is a shift in tone. Limiting the use of the bounce outs seems reasonable. > [@](#): > > Each routine’s D score is assessed based on what the gymnast actually does, not what they did on another day. Nitpick - the D score must be based on something. It is based upon the routine that the gymnast submits as to what they intend to do. Otherwise, the officials could not preannounce the D score for the event. Notice the board near the event where they announce the competitor? That has the D score posted before she goes. Ergo, the D score is written up in advance. Now how they adjust to a change during the event is a question of interpretation. They can either recalculate the D score based upon what actually happened, or they can just record it as a “miss” - they didn’t do that element. The result should be the same, to my understanding, but I could be wrong. It might depend on the flow aspects and connection points. I think this contributed to the challenge the US offered on Aly Reisman’s balance beam score. She performed, was given a low number, and was just under third place. Immediately the US officials told the judge to file a protest. Apparently you cannot protest the judges’ evaluation of the technical merit, only the D score. So they quickly wrote down the routine as they thought Aly performed it, the judges reevaluated the recorded performance, and they corrected the D score to reflect that change. Thus, Aly won the Bronze on Beam, and bumped the Russian. Was that because the judges missed something? Why was it not obvious from the pre-competition D score listed for Aly? Or was it a case of pointing out a connection element, for instance, that was actually there that they overlooked? [aside] Did anybody else notice how the Russian girl always looked like she was about to cry right before she performed? I’m not talking the girl who kept taking step outs, I’m talking the one with all the glitter. I swear, her look of concentration or whatever looks like the verge of tears. [/aside] ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/176 "2012-08-14T22:14:03Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I don’t see that listed. Whereas this page lists bronze medals for boxing. > > [London 2012 Boxing - Olympic Results by Discipline](http://www.london2012.com/boxing/medals/) Both semi-final losers are awarded bronze. If you click at the bottom of that table to go to “full medal count” and add up all the medals, you’ll see that there were 13 gold, 13 silver, and 26 bronze medals awarded. ETA: You’ll see the rules listed at the same site under “Competition Format” [here](http://www.london2012.com/boxing/about/). ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/177 "2012-08-14T23:21:29Z")
Interestingly, it turn out that Judo, Taekwando, and wrestling also award two bronzes, except they do it completely differently. Losers in previous rounds get to compete in a repechage, the two winners of which compete against the semifinal losers; the winners of both those matches get a bronze. This seems a little convoluted; why not just have it be simple elimination, with the two semifinal losers competing for a single bronze? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/178 "2012-08-15T00:06:23Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Interestingly, it turn out that Judo, Taekwando, and wrestling also award two bronzes, except they do it completely differently. Losers in previous rounds get to compete in a repechage, the two winners of which compete against the semifinal losers; the winners of both those matches get a bronze. This seems a little convoluted; why not just have it be simple elimination, with the two semifinal losers competing for a single bronze? I think it’s because in boxing, you can lose by a knockout, in which case you’re not allowed to box again for some time period. So you can’t compete in a repechage. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/179 "2012-08-15T00:30:13Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I think it’s because in boxing, you can lose by a knockout, in which case you’re not allowed to box again for some time period. So you can’t compete in a repechage. I understand that about boxing. The question is why do they have the repechage in the other three? Why not simply have the losing semifinalists compete for one bronze, instead of having the repechage and two bronzes? ---
**Author:** ![booklover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@booklover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklover)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797/180 "2012-08-15T20:41:34Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Nitpick - the D score must be based on something. It is based upon the routine that the gymnast submits as to what they intend to do. Otherwise, the officials could not preannounce the D score for the event. Notice the board near the event where they announce the competitor? That has the D score posted before she goes. Ergo, the D score is written up in advance. You’ve hit on one of the oddities of gymnastics. In vault only, the gymnast posts the D-score for the vault they intend to do. For the other apparati, the judges use a type of [shorthand](http://www.nawgjwa.com/pdf%27s/judgingsymbols.pdf) to document the routine as it is performed and calculate the D score. > [@](#): > > …I think this contributed to the challenge the US offered on Aly Reisman’s balance beam score. She performed, was given a low number, and was just under third place. Immediately the US officials told the judge to file a protest. Apparently you cannot protest the judges’ evaluation of the technical merit, only the D score. So they quickly wrote down the routine as they thought Aly performed it, the judges reevaluated the recorded performance, and they corrected the D score to reflect that change. Thus, Aly won the Bronze on Beam, and bumped the Russian. Was that because the judges missed something? Why was it not obvious from the pre-competition D score listed for Aly? Or was it a case of pointing out a connection element, for instance, that was actually there that they overlooked? A nitpick here–it’s Aly’s coach who filed the protest, not a judge. In Aly’s case, the issue was that the judges called her front pike a front tuck, which reduces the value of the skill. During video review, they concluded that her knees remained straight for longer than they originally thought and gave her credit for the front pike. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-olympic-questions/629797.md?page=10)