# Some one said to me that biology and medicine have not really change in the past 30 years **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** science-math\ **Created:** [August 12, 2024, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593 "2024-08-12T05:00:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jackson99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@Jackson99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackson99)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/41 "2024-08-13T02:20:05Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I question that: > > [Management of Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia in Less-Resourced Countries](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34398558/) Not sure what you mean do you mean non first world countries have little hospital treatment or care? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/42 "2024-08-13T02:25:28Z")
This reminds me of some the threads **sweat209** created about lack on progress on a whole lot of fronts, including fighting cancer. There’s some good information (unfortunately wasted on that user) in those threads. > [@Is the war on cancer an utter failure?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-war-on-cancer-an-utter-failure/701769): > > Is the war on cancer an utter failure? In the past 15 to 20 years have there been any progress ( or just little bit) ? Is there any new stuff in lab shown promising results. Some of these web sites probably biased information seem to say the war on cancer an utter failure.These web sites may be biased information. I don’t know enough about it to say otherwise. [http://rense.com/general9/cre.htm](http://rense.com/general9/cre.htm)[http://www.nanomedicinecenter.com/article/how-much-money-is-spent-on-cancer-research/](http://www.nanomedicinecenter.com/article/how-much-money-is-spent-on-cancer-research/) > [@Is the war on cancer an ‘utter failure’?: A sobering look at how billions in research money is spent](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-war-on-cancer-an-utter-failure-a-sobering-look-at-how-billions-in-research-money-is-spent/653155): > > I just found this news article today messy around with different news sites . I think medical breakthrough are kinda strange now here why. -lots of breakthrough with cloning has of late -lots of breakthrough with tissue engineering -lots of breakthrough with genetic engineering -lots of breakthrough understating genes -lots of breakthrough with stem cell -lots of breakthrough with bioengineering Finding new drugs to fight cancer , motor neuron disease , amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (AL… ---
**Author:** ![Jackson99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@Jackson99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackson99)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/43 "2024-08-13T02:25:58Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I question that: > > [Management of Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia in Less-Resourced Countries](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34398558/) Other thing that a lot of people are getting now is Alzheimer’s and dementia this is overwhelmingly the healthcare system. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/44 "2024-08-13T02:26:18Z")
> [@Jackson99](#): > > > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > > The country’s cancer death rate has declined 33 percent since 1991 > > Is this because of early detection or is this because of better treatment? Mostly better treatment. Just one data point, but for what I have (CLL), early detection generally has little value. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/45 "2024-08-13T02:26:29Z")
> [@Jackson99](#): > > Okay I’m just showing at the current pace of progress if it keeps moving up at this pace it take other 45 years to eradicate cancer. I don’t think we do eradicate cancer. Not unless we genetically modify human zygotes to be more like elephants. (Elephants ought to get cancer, and don’t. And why they don’t has been worked out. Which is a huge advance in biology, but not anything that can be used in medicine.) Cancer is something that happens to cells that don’t die of old age. I think cancer gets more treatable and the treatments get less damaging to the rest of the body, and many people live with cancer until they die of something else. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/46 "2024-08-13T02:28:21Z")
> [@Jackson99](#): > > Other thing that a lot of people are getting now is Alzheimer’s and dementia this is overwhelmingly the healthcare system. Huh? Those are overwhelmingly things that happen to people who survive long enough for their brains to start wearing out. ---
**Author:** ![Jackson99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@Jackson99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackson99)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/47 "2024-08-13T02:30:17Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I don’t think we do eradicate cancer. Not unless we genetically modify human zygotes to be more like elephants. (Elephants ought to get cancer, and don’t. And why they don’t has been worked out. Which is a huge advance in biology, but not anything that can be used in medicine.) Cancer is something that happens to cells that don’t die of old age. Is there some thing that Elephants have that they don’t get cancer? Could we use some thing that they have that they don’t get cancer? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/48 "2024-08-13T02:31:32Z")
Yes, they have about 50 copies of a gene that we have one copy of. That’s why it would take genetic modification of human zygotes for it to be helpful. (And it’s not clear that there wouldn’t be other consequences to having a lot of extra copies of the gene.) Eta: [What can elephants teach us about cancer? - Cancer Research UK - Cancer News](https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/08/12/can-elephants-get-cancer/#:~:text=Now%2C%20when%20DNA%20in%20a,that%20could%20turn%20into%20cancer). ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/49 "2024-08-13T02:34:54Z")
> [@Jackson99](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > I question that: > > > > [Management of Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia in Less-Resourced Countries](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34398558/) > > Not sure what you mean do you mean non first world countries have little hospital treatment or care? You can try requesting the full text for my abstract here: [Research Gate](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353936273_Management_of_Chronic_Lymphocytic_Leukemia_in_Less-Resourced_Countries) I think the answer is that there are hospitals and care in most of the world, but if everything isn’t done perfectly, treatment is much less likely to succeed. Also, essential meds may be unaffordable until they have gone off patent for at least a few years. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/50 "2024-08-13T10:39:30Z")
> [@Jackson99](#): > > Okay I’m just showing at the current pace of progress if it keeps moving up at this pace it take other 45 years to eradicate cancer. “Eradicate cancer” is nonsense, pure and simple. You may as well blather on about “eradicate death” or “eradicate aging”. If that’s your measure of merit, it’s hopeless even talking about the topic with you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/51 "2024-08-13T12:58:54Z")
> [@Jackson99](#): > > I think the problem now is there is major problem has 40% of people will get cancer now. And in 20 years from now that 40% may go to 60% of people may get cancer. Well, yeah; this would mean things are going well. See, as you age, if you don’t die of something else first, you will eventually get cancer. It’s a statistical certainty, because your cells are constantly dividing and with each division there is a chance that a cell will make a mistake, or really more than one, and that it will lose three things: 1. The ability to stop growing 2. The ability to recognize other cells in your body and share resources with them 3. The ability to signal your immune system ‘something is wrong, terminate me’ With those three things gone, the cell will replicate out of control, forming cancer. Again, statistically speaking, if you live long enough without something else getting you, this will eventually happen. Incidentally, this may also be why whales don’t suffer much from cancer. Whales have more cells than us which means more chances for things to go wrong and therefore more cancerous tumors. However, whales are SO big that a tumor has to grow a lot before it is harmful, and the thing about cancer cells is that they mutated to get this way, and _they can mutate again_. In fact, being already messed up, cancer cells are more likely to mutate than regular cells. Just as regular cells can mutate in ways that mess up replication (causing cancer), that lump of out of control cells can mutate _again_, cannibalizing itself and dying off. In humans, by the time this happened, you’d have so much cancer in you that you’d be dead, but apparently it happens to whales all the time. It’s called Peto’s Paradox. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1AElONvi9WQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Why Blue Whales Don't Get Cancer - Peto's Paradox") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AElONvi9WQ) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/52 "2024-08-13T13:04:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I don’t think we do eradicate cancer. Not unless we genetically modify human zygotes to be more like elephants. (Elephants ought to get cancer, and don’t. And why they don’t has been worked out. Which is a huge advance in biology, but not anything that can be used in medicine.) I used to think that anyone alive was born too early for genetic therapy, but as I understand it techniques like CRISPR would actually allow us to do stuff like add these genes into a living cell. The issue would be delivering the virus to all the necessary cells, but with something like cancer, maybe you start with just the cells around the tumor? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/53 "2024-08-13T13:05:38Z")
> [@Jackson99](#): > > Is there some thing that Elephants have that they don’t get cancer? Could we use some thing that they have that they don’t get cancer? Part of it, like the whales, is simply their size. Tumors don’t last forever and an elephant is large enough that a tumor that would kill a human doesn’t hurt them much. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/54 "2024-08-13T13:12:57Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > See, as you age, if you don’t die of something else first, you will eventually get cancer. It’s a statistical certainty, because your cells are constantly dividing and with each division there is a chance that a cell will make a mistake, or really more than one, and that it will lose three things: > > 1. The ability to stop growing > 2. The ability to recognize other cells in your body and share resources with them > 3. The ability to signal your immune system ‘something is wrong, terminate me’ I think the below is correct, It’s a statistical certainty, because cells are constantly dividing and with each division there is a chance that a cell will make a mistake, that every human has, and has had, at least one cancer. Fortunately 3, above, catches almost all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/55 "2024-08-13T13:19:28Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > It’s a statistical certainty, because cells are constantly dividing and with each division there is a chance that a cell will make a mistake, that every human has, and has had, at least one cancer. > Fortunately 3, above, catches almost all of them. Yeah, absolutely. Cancers are an incredibly specific line up of multiple mutations. Without all of them, the body can kill the cancer, or the cancer kills itself. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/56 "2024-08-13T13:20:26Z")
I think statements like “If you don’t die of something else first, you will eventually get cancer. " need to be better phrased. Since " If you don’t die of something else first, you will eventually die of X.” is true for any fatal X. E.g., " If you don’t die of something else first, you will eventually die from heart failure." One advance that has affected us personally is the osteoporosis medication Forteo. It has tremendously helped **MrsFtG**. It is incredibly expensive right now if you don’t have the right insurance as well as being a daily shot, but down the road this drug and similar ones are going to change things for a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/57 "2024-08-13T13:26:48Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@Jackson99](#): > > > > Is there some thing that Elephants have that they don’t get cancer? Could we use some thing that they have that they don’t get cancer? > > Part of it, like the whales, is simply their size. Tumors don’t last forever and an elephant is large enough that a tumor that would kill a human doesn’t hurt them much. Not getting cancer, and not dying of cancer, are different things. To re-answer their question, elephants have many copies of a gene that appears to actively suppress tumors. More generally, there’s Peto’s paradox, which describes how larger animals don’t have a proportionately higher appearance of cancer (despite having more cells). [Peto’s Paradox: Evolution’s Prescription for Cancer Prevention - PMC (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3060950/) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/58 "2024-08-13T13:28:57Z")
No, it’s the opposite. Tumors grow uncontrollably, and kill large animals (like humans.) And in general, the odds of getting a tumor increase with greater body size and longer life. (More cells and more cell reproductions.) Elephants ought to all die of cancer, except they almost never get cancer. Probably, their ability to avoid cancer (by damaged cells killing themselves rather than promulgating, really really reliably!) was an important in allowing them to grow so large in the first place. There have been a lot of attempts to tweak genes in living people. Hemophilia and sickle cell disease are two serious illnesses caused by a single flawed gene that is well understood. But and large, messing with a gene causes the immune system to recognize the modified cells as foreign and kill them. In fact, the mRNA vaccines are an offshoot of that research. “Hey, we can use that immune response”." Those vaccines don’t need an adjudant because the modified cell spitting out the viral protein already triggers the immune system. Sadly, modified cells that spit out insulin or human clotting factor tend to do the same. I have seen some recent attempts to modify the genes of living people (with sickle cell disease) so maybe there have been advances. Or maybe those, like prior attempts, will work for a while and then be taken down by the immune system. But building what elephants have is a really large change, not a tiny tweak. It’s possible someone will do it to a human egg, and that will be successful. I don’t expect to see that kind of generic modification of already-born humans in my lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/59 "2024-08-13T13:32:44Z")
Ninja’d! Except your post is way more informative. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2024, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593/60 "2024-08-13T13:37:00Z")
As I’ve said before, 30 years ago MS was a slow death sentence. Now it is just an expensive nuisance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-one-said-to-me-that-biology-and-medicine-have-not-really-change-in-the-past-30-years/1005593.md?page=4)